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Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM
The whole of the section only lists names and a few details... and she mentions far too many individuals to assume they were all SC, including Talene who we know for fact is not. And she never says a word about rank being noted.


The Gathering Storm
A Visit from Verin Sedai

The next few hours were among the most disturbing and discomforting in her life. Some of the names were unknown to her, many barely familiar. Others were women she had worked with, respected, and even trusted. She cursed when she found Katerine's name near the head of the list, then hissed in surprise when Alviarin's name came up. She'd heard of Elza Penfell and Galina Casban, though she didn't know some of the next few names.

She felt a sickening pit within her when she read Sheriam's name. Egwene had once suspected the woman, true, but that had been during her days as a novice and an Accepted. During those days—the days when she'd first begun hunting the Black Ajah—Liandrin's betrayal had still been fresh. Egwene had suspected everyone then.

During the exile in Salidar, Egwene had worked closely with Sheriam and had grown to like the woman. But she was Black. Egwene's own Keeper was Black. Steel yourself, Egwene, she thought, continuing to read down the list. She worked through the feelings of betrayal, the bitterness and the regret. She would not let emotions get in the way of her duty.

The Black sisters were spread across all Ajahs. Some were Sitters, others were the lowest and least powerful of Aes Sedai. And there were hundreds of them, a little over two hundred by Verin's own count. Twenty-one in the Blue, twenty-eight in the Brown, thirty in the Gray, thirty-eight in the Green, seventeen in the White, twenty-one in the Yellow, and a stunning forty-eight in the Red. There were names of Accepted and novices as well. The book noted that those had probably been Darkfriends before they joined the White Tower, as the Black Ajah did not recruit from any except Aes Sedai. It referred her to an earlier page for a longer explanation, but Egwene continued down the list of sisters. She needed to know the names of each woman. She needed to.

There were Black sisters among the rebel Aes Sedai and those of the White Tower, and even some among those unaligned who had been away from the Tower during the split. Other than Sheriam, the most disturbing discovery on the list were the sisters who were Sitters in either the Tower or among the rebels. Duhara Basaheen. Velina Behar. Sedore Dajenna. Delana Mosalaine, of course, and Talene Minly as well. Meidani had admitted to Egwene in confidence that Talene was the member of the Black Ajah that Saerin and the others had discovered, but she had fled the Tower.

Moria Karentanis. That last was a member of the Blue Ajah, a woman who had worn the shawl for over a hundred years, known for her wisdom and level-headedness. Egwene had conferred with her on numerous occasions, and had drawn on her experience, assuming that she—a Blue—would be one of the most reliable in her support. Moria had been one of those who had been eager to elect Egwene as Amyrlin, and had stood quickly in Egwene's favor at several crucial moments.

Each name was like a thorn through Egwene's skin. Dagdara Finchey, who had healed Egwene once when she'd stumbled and twisted her ankle. Zanica, who had taught Egwene lessons and had seemed so pleasant. Larissa Lyndel. Miyasi, for whom Egwene had cracked nuts. Nesita. Nacelle Kayama. Nalaene Forrell, who—like Elza—was bound to Rand. Birlen Pena. Melvara. Chai Rugan. ...

The list went on. Neither Romanda or Lelaine were Black, which was somewhat irritating. Being able to throw one or both of those into chains would have been very convenient. Why Sheriam, but neither of those two?

Stop it, Egwene, she thought. You aren't behaving rationally. Wishing for certain sisters to be Black got her nowhere.

Cadsuane was not on the list. Neither were any of Egwene's dearest friends. She hadn't expected them to be, but it was still good to complete the list without seeing any of their names. The group hunting the Black Ajah in the White Tower really was true, as none of their names were on the list. The list also didn't contain the names of any of the spies sent from Salidar.

And Elaida's name wasn't on the list either. There was a notation at the end, explaining that Verin had looked very closely at Elaida, searching for proof that she was Black. But comments by Black sisters led her to believe strongly that Elaida was not herself Black. Just an unstable woman who was sometimes as frustrating to the Black as she was to the rest of the Tower.

It made sense, unfortunately. Knowing that Galina and Alviarin were Black had led Egwene to suspect that she wouldn't find Elaida's name on the list. The Blacks seemed more likely to choose someone they could manipulate to be Amyrlin, then install a Black Keeper to keep her in line.

They probably had used some kind of leverage against Elaida through Galina—whom Verin noted had probably managed to make herself Head of the Red Ajah—or Alviarin. They had bullied or bribed Elaida to do as they wished without her knowing that she was serving the Black. And that helped explain Alviarin's strange fall. Had she gone too far, perhaps? Overstepped herself, earning Elaida's ire? It seemed plausible, though they wouldn't know for certain until Elaida spoke or Egwene could have Alviarin interrogated. Which she meant to do as soon as possible.

She closed the fat red book, thoughtful, her candle burned nearly down to the base. It was growing late in the day. Perhaps it was time to insist on being given some information about the state of the Tower.

Before she could decide how to go about that, a knock came at the door. Egwene looked up, hurriedly twisting the straps of the bookmark around and making both books vanish. A knock meant someone other than a Red was there.


Later when she is talking to Sheriam is when she notes that she is probably SC:


The Gathering Storm
Sealed to the Flame

She trailed off as Egwene held out the Oath Rod. "Prove it, Sheriam. The woman who came to me in the Tower gave me your name as a leader among the Black Ajah."

While not definitive, this presumably indicates that Sheriam is on the SC, but that is as specific as she gets. Same with Alviarin... she doesn't even confirm if she knows Alviarin is the Head ... she merely says she is "near the head of their organization" not much different than how she characterized Sheriam.


The Gathering Storm
A Visit from Verin Sedai

"Alviarin, Mother?" Meidani asked. "Why her?"

"She's Black," Egwene said, stomach turning. "And near the head of their organization in the Tower. This was the information Verin died to bring me."


In ToM Egwene seems most keen on hunting down Alviarin and Katerine ... likely Katerine only because of what a bitch she was. So perhaps she is aware that Alviarin is the Head, but it could as easily be because of their various MoN encounters or Egwene could have deduced that Alviarin was the highest ranking SC member left since Sheriam and Verin were both dead. Hard to say without knowing more SC names.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Misc observations from my latest re-read - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 2827 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? - 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM 1404 Views
How Stong was Gitara? - 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM 1309 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength. - 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM 1377 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM 1176 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM 1004 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository - 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM 1010 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories. - 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM 1157 Views
And there's Sorilea... - 15/10/2012 02:53:15 AM 1220 Views
Perhaps, but Bair is in her 80s and can't channel at all - 15/10/2012 03:09:35 AM 971 Views
Problem is... - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1133 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 969 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! - 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM 992 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 935 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1081 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend - 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM 908 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai? - 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM 993 Views
He was banging the queen - 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM 951 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen? - 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM 1195 Views
here ya go - 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM 1051 Views
There's an awful lot for "not many" - 15/10/2012 05:07:30 AM 982 Views
When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 920 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1034 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 977 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 992 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV - 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM 976 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors! - 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM 1030 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 949 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1044 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 667 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself... - 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM 977 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed - 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM 989 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship - 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM 1105 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her - 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM 923 Views
We know nothing of the sort. - 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM 917 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM 1019 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1040 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 1000 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1084 Views
Just to be clear - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 924 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1018 Views
Elayne's thoughts about this - 17/10/2012 04:16:38 PM 971 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points" - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1178 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 977 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1061 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan - 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM 979 Views
To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 925 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 994 Views
Some people look young. - 15/10/2012 05:51:25 AM 888 Views
I never mentioned the OR... - 16/10/2012 01:38:48 AM 996 Views
RJ said Sharina would go back to about middle aged - 16/10/2012 02:23:21 AM 821 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 593 Views
Told you so. *NM* - 15/10/2012 05:21:58 AM 695 Views
I think so. - 16/11/2012 11:40:17 AM 1151 Views
Aging - 15/10/2012 06:08:47 PM 994 Views
How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM 1012 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM 1109 Views
I couldn't find it - 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM 1004 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false? - 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM 1161 Views
I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM 1213 Views
Not the same thing - 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM 989 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!! - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1133 Views
Re: I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 10:15:29 PM 1198 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise. - 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM 851 Views
Of course there is truth... - 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM 1077 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM 1031 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM 1028 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does - 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM 1116 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are? - 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM 1021 Views
Who says they can't? - 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM 1023 Views
True to a point - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 920 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 988 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 939 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 994 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 886 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 675 Views
Yes she is - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1032 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1004 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 948 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 996 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM 1065 Views
You mean the SC? - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1039 Views
No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1041 Views
Re: No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1007 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 889 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 952 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 918 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1034 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM 850 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1137 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM 1184 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 938 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1002 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 875 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM 1013 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 931 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that - 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM 1072 Views
*sigh* - 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM 1016 Views
*double sigh* - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 944 Views
Re: *double sigh* - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 967 Views
Agreed *NM* - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 587 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1051 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM 1029 Views
Not conclusive? - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 898 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 890 Views
double post *NM* - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 586 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1091 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1120 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 894 Views
Just a note about Bair - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1026 Views
I don't see how it could be possible - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 899 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM 1172 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1096 Views

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