Active Users:1189 Time:22/11/2024 10:38:45 PM
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve DomA Send a noteboard - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
He always seemed to have things like this worked out. As the original post indicated, these where just some random observations that occurred to me during a re-read. As I read Verin's BA tale it struck me that most BA women could have pretty easily been able to figure each others out based on a few factors like strength and mystery instruction etc .... to your point it doesn't feel as though we got the whole story from Alviarin's POVs.


I also think Verin's confession lacked juicy details RJ would likely have given us about the BA (it's also part of the "resolution" to the BA organization. Verin's scene and Alviarin pre-purge scenes were his last opportunities to reveal whatever he intended to reveal about them.. after that they're pretty much Dreadlords on the run) . I don't think he would have overlooked giving us clearer hints of Verin's and Sheriam's ranking once exposed, for example. It was handled a bit poorly, or at least disappointingly.

And yeah, there sure was a big counter POV from Alviarin missing from the time of the purge. The whole "SH's hound" arc went down the drain. It's a pity, we have no idea where Alviarin stands now, after Mesaana's downfall. Too bad, because she was one of the cooler, more understated villains and we had followed her through the whole series.

The only thing about her that I see as a possible negative for SC membership is her age to membership ratio.


It's not so different from Demandred having served the DO but a few years compared to Ishamael, Graendal, Lanfear having served him for a great many decades, but rising spectacularly.

I suspect Verin's craftiness and intelligence would be a major factor.

We do not know how members of the SC are chosen. The way she spoke of having been picked in the mass of the BA, it sounds like Ishamael was in a spring cleaning mood and raised Alviarin from the rank-and-file the strongest White available (someone of cool logic would have suited his needs at the time, he was furious of the SC's too great sense of "initiative". Of course given who he was, Elan Morin would have affinities to Whites serving the Shadow at any given time), but of course that would have been exceptional.

We know only two women on the council knew Alviarin headed it. We also know only Alviarin as Head knew the names of every BA. My guess is that the Head picks a new council member as an old one dies (naturally, or because the council decided it...).

It's just a hunch, but Alviarin, a logician, seems to put a lot of attention on the strict avoidance of patterns (which of course would be a clue to some that the BA was run by a White!). Curiously, Talene as a high ranking Green Sitter wasn't on the council. It suggests perhaps none of the Black Sitters were part of the SC, that Alviarin preferred to avoid that (in part not to share power, in part because it would introduce an obvious pattern to pick high standing sisters for high standing BA positions). The SC is likely to consist of high and low sisters, younger and older, and to be distributed unevenly among the Ajah.

Alviarin's predecessor seems to have lost a few high ranking members, which she had used in the failed hunt. Alviarin likely had to replace a few (like she's had to replace Galina recently).

I do, however, think she was a horrible choice as a SC member!


Yes, but Sheriam did enjoy a good reputation in the WT (and even more in her Salidar days, until Aran'gar arrived and ruined her) and there was a shortage of influential Blues as they lost so many members in the last two decades.

Sheriam's big mouth is a bit exagerrated. She's gossipy, but she sure managed to hide she was BA... as for her commitment, this is not something the BA would really know about, Sheriam was highly ambitious and would carefully have hidden that (just as she did with Mesaana). She wasn't adverse to radical actions to position herself, from what she said.

The advantages of women like Alviarin, Sheriam, Verin, Galina is that they would be women who mostly live at the Tower. That's something the BA would look for in council members (like the Ajah do in Sitters).

I suspect Delana was also SC.


I very much doubt it. Delana was thoroughly unambitious, and from her one POV (when Aran'gar arrives), she was something of a fool who seemed to genuinely be happy of her new nomination as
Gray Sitter, unaware she was perfectly "unsuitable" for the position, and she got this big reality check when Aran'gar arrived to claim her. She was worse than Sheriam, she's one of those who seemed to be BA "to be naughty" or because she was bored. Moridin has picked a Sitter for Aran'gar, that doesn't mean Delana was also high ranking in the BA. Interestingly, he picked the least competent Sitter (Moria had far more clout). It's also obvious Aran'gar was told about Sheriam, but Sheriam's entourage wasn't a good place for Halima. Moria would have been another choice, but it seems Moridin kept Moria for himself (in the sense that she was probably one of his hidden informers in Salidar) and beside, it wasn't a good idea for Halima to be around Blues, given her cover story with Cabriana.

I wonder at times why Liandrin's group was formed without direct supervision from the SC, they are the only major group of BA that has been formed and they were sent out with a young hot headed leader ... Seems like an epic fail,waiting to happen ... and it was!


Liandrin's group featured many "lose cannons". Alviarin hates to lose Black sisters. It really looks like she picked a group of sisters she was not all that sad to lose to give to Be'lal. Liandrin, for instance, was a liability because Egwene/Nyaneve/Elayne had survived (Verin probably had to forewarn Alviarin she was returning to the WT from Falme with those three), and the whole way these 13 were ordered to raid the vaults (when if the BA wants to "borrow" small ter'angreal, it could have been done far more discreetely) speaks of meddling from Mesaana: she couldn't stop Be'lal from getting 13 BA, but she could expose them as BA, and prevent Be'lal from being able to send some back to TV later to meddle in her affairs, or to start competing with her by using these BA near rulers etc. Be'lal obviously didn't know Mesaana was in the Tower.
Reply to message
Misc observations from my latest re-read - 14/10/2012 08:26:37 PM 2827 Views
How does LTT know about Far Madding's history? - 14/10/2012 08:29:13 PM 1403 Views
How Stong was Gitara? - 14/10/2012 08:34:43 PM 1309 Views
So so stong. She had incredible stength. - 14/10/2012 09:04:15 PM 1377 Views
Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:22:23 PM 1175 Views
Re: Degree of slowing is the same as how long they will live - 14/10/2012 09:36:19 PM 1003 Views
Not in the mood to deal with you ... Go read the Ages section of 13th Depository - 14/10/2012 09:53:14 PM 1010 Views
Not interested in Linda's private theories. - 15/10/2012 02:29:41 AM 1156 Views
And there's Sorilea... - 15/10/2012 02:53:15 AM 1219 Views
Perhaps, but Bair is in her 80s and can't channel at all - 15/10/2012 03:09:35 AM 971 Views
Problem is... - 14/10/2012 11:52:00 PM 1132 Views
Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 12:07:49 AM 968 Views
Show me where in the books an adviser is selected by Tower authorities! - 15/10/2012 02:58:19 AM 991 Views
Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 935 Views
Re: Yet look what happens the minute a Stronger woman showed up - 15/10/2012 03:35:10 AM 1081 Views
Yet Morgase herself states she didn't consider Elaida a friend - 15/10/2012 03:45:45 AM 907 Views
How did Gareth Bryne get to stay Captain General, given his lack of respect to Aes Sedai? - 15/10/2012 04:07:07 AM 992 Views
He was banging the queen - 15/10/2012 04:19:24 AM 950 Views
And what Aes Sedai gave him permission to bang the queen? - 15/10/2012 04:30:42 AM 1195 Views
here ya go - 15/10/2012 04:39:29 AM 1050 Views
There's an awful lot for "not many" - 15/10/2012 05:07:30 AM 981 Views
When did I say I bought into Linda's theories? - 15/10/2012 05:29:27 AM 919 Views
Re: Again, my point isn't about motivations for Elaida or Gitara ... that is clear - 15/10/2012 03:15:18 AM 1033 Views
The thing is Elaida had no experience in the arena at all - 15/10/2012 03:25:10 AM 976 Views
IT IS NOT THE TOWER'S DAMNED JOB! She had more than enough credentials for ANDOR - 15/10/2012 03:45:15 AM 992 Views
Nope. Every other advisor we've seen has been sent from TV - 15/10/2012 03:50:07 AM 976 Views
Those are not official advisers, those are ambassadors! - 15/10/2012 04:17:51 AM 1029 Views
So now you are saying that Elaida was a personal advisor not an envoy of the Tower? - 15/10/2012 04:22:31 AM 949 Views
Finally! I was beginning to despair of your literacy! - 15/10/2012 04:34:18 AM 1043 Views
now I am questioning your literacy *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:40:45 AM 667 Views
She didn't "land it". She took the job for herself... - 15/10/2012 04:00:35 AM 976 Views
Actually every advisor we've seen except Elaida has been appointed - 15/10/2012 04:11:39 AM 989 Views
You can bully someone into an act, not a twenty year relationship - 15/10/2012 04:22:16 AM 1105 Views
Not arguing that Morgase had a problem with her - 15/10/2012 04:33:10 AM 922 Views
We know nothing of the sort. - 15/10/2012 05:14:54 AM 917 Views
Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 15/10/2012 05:39:23 AM 1019 Views
Re: Prove that Elaida's post was not Tower sanctioned - 17/10/2012 04:15:37 AM 1040 Views
Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 05:33:01 AM 999 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 17/10/2012 01:01:47 PM 1084 Views
Just to be clear - 17/10/2012 03:58:58 PM 923 Views
Re: Egwene said otherwise DomA,... - 18/10/2012 01:23:48 AM 1018 Views
Elayne's thoughts about this - 17/10/2012 04:16:38 PM 971 Views
And an answer to the rest of your "points" - 15/10/2012 02:48:07 AM 1178 Views
Again. I refer you to Linda's blog. The relevant quotes are there ... Enjoy - 15/10/2012 02:52:03 AM 977 Views
Oh for the love of...! Here's the relevant quote: - 15/10/2012 04:04:48 AM 1061 Views
Okay, but that's still irrelevant to the Oath Rod & its cutoff period or method, as well as lifespan - 15/10/2012 04:54:26 AM 979 Views
To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:16:56 AM 925 Views
Re: To quote you RTDB - 15/10/2012 05:27:47 AM 993 Views
Some people look young. - 15/10/2012 05:51:25 AM 888 Views
I never mentioned the OR... - 16/10/2012 01:38:48 AM 995 Views
RJ said Sharina would go back to about middle aged - 16/10/2012 02:23:21 AM 821 Views
And that is probably the ONLY quote that wasn't on Linda's page *NM* - 15/10/2012 04:55:33 AM 592 Views
Told you so. *NM* - 15/10/2012 05:21:58 AM 694 Views
I think so. - 16/11/2012 11:40:17 AM 1151 Views
Aging - 15/10/2012 06:08:47 PM 993 Views
How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 08:41:35 PM 1012 Views
Re: How old was Lanfear? - 14/10/2012 11:27:12 PM 1109 Views
I couldn't find it - 15/10/2012 12:22:43 AM 1003 Views
Are the Seanchan prophesies false? - 14/10/2012 08:43:55 PM 1161 Views
I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 09:21:43 PM 1212 Views
Not the same thing - 14/10/2012 09:44:43 PM 989 Views
Show me some damn PROOF already!! - 15/10/2012 03:19:18 AM 1133 Views
Re: I've only been saying no for years. - 14/10/2012 10:15:29 PM 1197 Views
Your argument is based on a faulty premise. - 15/10/2012 08:11:19 PM 850 Views
Of course there is truth... - 14/10/2012 09:42:24 PM 1076 Views
Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:02:40 PM 1031 Views
Re: Didn't know Bsand had confirmed the corruption. Thanks for sharing - 14/10/2012 10:23:17 PM 1027 Views
Hmmm ...I like it! It is actually very similar to what Nynaeve does - 14/10/2012 10:31:48 PM 1116 Views
How do the Black Ajah not figure out who the others are? - 14/10/2012 08:48:14 PM 1021 Views
Who says they can't? - 14/10/2012 09:23:11 PM 1022 Views
True to a point - 14/10/2012 10:00:01 PM 920 Views
Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:23:16 AM 988 Views
Perhaps not. But a woman like Sheriam would stick out - 15/10/2012 03:37:12 AM 939 Views
Re: Was Sheriam ranking? Would many of them have met her? Not everyone even gets to meet the SC. - 15/10/2012 03:52:39 AM 994 Views
But isn't it interesting that Sheriam and Galina, both young and strong are on the SC? - 15/10/2012 04:06:38 AM 885 Views
Galina isn't young. *NM* - 17/10/2012 03:24:30 AM 674 Views
Yes she is - 17/10/2012 03:46:39 PM 1032 Views
85 years being BA, 90 years as a sister does not qualify her as a "young AS" - 18/10/2012 05:35:33 PM 1003 Views
She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 06:53:54 PM 947 Views
Re: She is not dissimilar to Sheriam when she made her rise IMO - 18/10/2012 08:10:58 PM 995 Views
I think Linda is correct in this particular instance - 19/10/2012 02:14:23 AM 1065 Views
You mean the SC? - 14/10/2012 10:47:31 PM 1038 Views
No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:01:21 PM 1041 Views
Re: No others meet as well - 14/10/2012 11:36:50 PM 1006 Views
Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 12:14:36 AM 889 Views
Re: Yet rank and file BA have methods of communicating - 15/10/2012 03:26:59 AM 951 Views
I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 04:54:04 AM 918 Views
Re: I concede that the rank and file likely don't meet in large groups - 15/10/2012 02:28:45 PM 1034 Views
I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 03:01:20 PM 850 Views
Re: I agree that RJ probably had some thing up his sleeve - 15/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1137 Views
I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 01:20:32 AM 1183 Views
Re: I have a different opinion of Delana - 16/10/2012 11:51:34 PM 938 Views
Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 02:55:19 AM 1002 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 03:40:54 PM 875 Views
Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 06:57:38 PM 1012 Views
Re: Give the sign to a woman and see how she reacts - 18/10/2012 07:26:56 PM 930 Views
Not a good plan, I'll give you that - 18/10/2012 07:37:45 PM 1071 Views
*sigh* - 18/10/2012 08:25:23 PM 1015 Views
*double sigh* - 19/10/2012 04:03:00 AM 943 Views
Re: *double sigh* - 19/10/2012 05:48:25 PM 967 Views
Agreed *NM* - 20/10/2012 04:57:18 PM 587 Views
Re: Egwene only notes Alviarin as the Head. Verin may not have even mentioned or know who was SC - 18/10/2012 04:59:25 PM 1051 Views
Not conclusive ... in fact the whole bit is vague ... I wonder if RJ would have given us more detail - 18/10/2012 07:23:30 PM 1028 Views
Not conclusive? - 18/10/2012 08:49:49 PM 898 Views
Don't put words in my mouth that I never said - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 890 Views
double post *NM* - 19/10/2012 04:08:22 AM 586 Views
Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 14/10/2012 08:51:16 PM 1090 Views
Re: Is there a Dark Friend WO? - 17/10/2012 08:33:27 PM 1119 Views
I'd like to see more discussion on this; I'm curious as well - 18/10/2012 12:44:35 AM 893 Views
Just a note about Bair - 18/10/2012 07:53:45 AM 1026 Views
I don't see how it could be possible - 23/10/2012 09:31:51 PM 898 Views
Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 10:47:55 PM 1171 Views
Re: Galad and Gaywn ... Channlers? - 14/10/2012 11:36:25 PM 1096 Views

Reply to Message