Active Users:665 Time:18/04/2025 10:42:42 PM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious Send a noteboard - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
ALL effects are created by WEAVES. Fireballs are weaves, we've even heard from the characters that the motion you learn is part of the weave.

Why are we even debating that Traveling is a Talent. Not only do we have an abundance of quotes stating it, but it was called out as such in the glossary and in the BWB ... AND we've now seen a number of characters who can manipulate the weave to far greater degrees than their strength alone should dictate! Show me where Traveling is disproven as a Talent.


But I have just shown you! Are you reading my posts?

Look at the other Talents.... Dreaming, Foretelling, Cuendillar, Listening to the Wind, forging power wrought weapons, Healing. They are all dissimilar to what you are proposing. Picking up an angreal doesn't measurably increase them, linking doesnt amplify them, they aren't dependent on strength in the Power. You can't refute that... Its factual from the books.

I don't disagree that there is a travelling Talent. I do think that you don't know what it is. Making a gateway is not having the Talent and the books do not refute this. You claim that people who can Travel have the Talent but I have shown you that all channelers can Heal to a degree and shield other channelers. That doesn't mean they have a Healing Talent or a shielding Talent. Even RJ said that a shielding Talent was the ability to hold someone of significantly higher strength successfully. Androl has a Talent because he can Travel with small amounts of the Power. The Travelling Talent implies high Talent not ALL Talent. The reason that its listed in the books as a Talent is because some rare individuals can perform it to alarming degrees successfully.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Reply to message
Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2887 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 651 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1093 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1460 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1106 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1249 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1228 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1127 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1400 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1244 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1125 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1165 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1145 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1263 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 937 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1146 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1171 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1253 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1336 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1145 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 586 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1359 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1122 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1304 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1059 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1147 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1180 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1321 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1128 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1163 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1176 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1143 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1222 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1098 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1107 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1169 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 1000 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1144 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1372 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1062 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1141 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1080 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1121 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1064 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1183 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1015 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1218 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1146 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1155 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1065 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1036 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1024 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1066 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1048 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1061 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 999 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 929 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 985 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1100 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 954 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1112 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 931 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1050 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1121 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1031 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1095 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1124 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1294 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1084 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 1005 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 850 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1118 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1043 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1071 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1091 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1056 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1060 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 1012 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1048 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 925 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1091 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 992 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1034 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1025 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1035 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 1006 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1066 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1065 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1477 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1148 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1039 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1049 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1103 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 976 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 934 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1046 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1025 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1080 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 466 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 1002 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1042 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1143 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1125 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 1004 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 769 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1196 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1040 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1034 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1151 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1077 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1087 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1036 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1064 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1113 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 938 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 913 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1065 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1054 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1235 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 1009 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1074 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1058 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 683 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1024 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1171 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 1002 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1136 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1058 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1029 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 1013 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1198 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 956 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1452 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1038 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 1009 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1156 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1088 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1114 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 1003 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1267 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1068 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1182 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1062 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 947 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1089 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1170 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1101 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1192 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1126 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1145 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 575 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1211 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1126 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1117 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1095 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1091 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1067 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1133 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1108 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1116 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1289 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1053 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 930 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes