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Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
Circles are not about added strength, or even added Talents. They're about added precision. Four Kinswomen too weak to even become Accepted can make a Gateway as large as Rand's when in circle. This has nothing to do with Talent adding up (who says their individual Talents add up?). What a circle does is allow you to focus power from different sources into one single weave, and the process itself seems to add a ton of precision to the weaving. I'd say its fairly certain that this added precision results in greater weaving efficiency, which can end up looking like added Talents, but obviously is not.

ETA:

Here's Jordan's quote:

For Shiska, a mixed gender circle has X amount of saidin and Y amount of saidar available, set by the strengths of the men and women in it. Talents or special skills available to members of the circle other than whoever is melding the flows are not available to the person who is. If those Talents or skills are particularly needed, then control of the circle must be passed.

This message last edited by fionwe1987 on 07/10/2012 at 11:31:15 PM
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Problems with gateways Narg - 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM 2877 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM* Tom - 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM 646 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd... Narg - 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM 1079 Views
It's been discussed before... DomA - 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM 1441 Views
I would agree with this A Deathwatch Guard - 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM 1089 Views
Re: I would agree with this DomA - 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM 1235 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM 1209 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too) Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM 1111 Views
Regarding shadowspawn: Narg - 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM 1379 Views
Isn't there a quote somewhere about this? darius_sedai - 28/09/2012 07:30:40 PM 1228 Views
There is echooff - 28/09/2012 07:52:30 PM 1112 Views
Can Fain pass through a Gateway? Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:11:59 PM 1147 Views
Re: Can Fain pass through a Gateway? DomA - 02/10/2012 02:37:58 AM 1125 Views
Here's a neat idea Marshall - 28/09/2012 08:07:52 PM 1250 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM 915 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it Sidious - 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM 1134 Views
Absurd question... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 10:44:53 PM 1161 Views
Doesn't it meet your standards? Sidious - 29/09/2012 07:47:12 AM 1239 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM 1325 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... LoialT - 28/09/2012 11:12:54 PM 1130 Views
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. *NM* Dreadlord - 01/10/2012 07:30:22 PM 582 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM 1346 Views
Androl throws a kink in this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM 1109 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this DomA - 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM 1288 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM 1041 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say Sidious - 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM 1130 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM 1163 Views
No I think they're more about strength Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM 1305 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM 1109 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM 1151 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this fionwe1987 - 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM 1165 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this Sidious - 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM 1129 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM 1206 Views
She did Heal him Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM 1081 Views
and *gasp* maybe breeding. Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:36:59 PM 1093 Views
Re-read some stuff darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM 1153 Views
Re: Re-read some stuff Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:22:06 AM 984 Views
Um she tries out of desperation? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 03:06:59 PM 1130 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM 1358 Views
But his thought processes are sound Sidious - 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM 1038 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM 1127 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS Sidious - 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM 1065 Views
Why was Flinn so late and why bring up his Gateway? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 04:15:47 PM 1104 Views
Ummm... fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM 1052 Views
Re: Ummm... Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM 1167 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM 1001 Views
Re: I don't think RJ changed his mind DomA - 07/10/2012 07:28:38 PM 1203 Views
I wasn't being very clear darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:45:15 PM 1132 Views
I think he did Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM 1142 Views
Maybe darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:48:24 PM 1046 Views
still don't think that's proof. It's just practical. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 07:06:15 PM 1013 Views
Interesting point you bring up about fighting for control darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:44:26 AM 1010 Views
She wouldn't have to guess! Onarishma - 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM 1048 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM 1034 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM 1047 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM 987 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM 911 Views
Re: Exactly... Sidious - 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM 972 Views
Re: Exactly... fionwe1987 - 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM 1085 Views
AND... darius_sedai - 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM 941 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM 1100 Views
Again THANK YOU! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:35:10 PM 916 Views
Re: AND... darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM 1037 Views
Re: AND... Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM 1107 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM 1016 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it Sidious - 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM 1079 Views
TY!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:38:44 PM 1112 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM 1282 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise Sidious - 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM 1071 Views
Are you reading mine? darius_sedai - 13/10/2012 07:09:02 PM 990 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM 836 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM 1101 Views
THANK YOU!!! Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:26:49 PM 1030 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct Onarishma - 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM 1041 Views
to the point on the Circle darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM 1075 Views
Circles don't add the Talents... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM 1038 Views
I had forgotten about Brendas! darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 05:15:52 AM 1046 Views
I've been thinking about this darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM 999 Views
Circles give added precision, remember? fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM 1034 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM 910 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM 1079 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM 977 Views
Highly doubtful... fionwe1987 - 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM 1021 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM 1009 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM 1021 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM 992 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM 1049 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM 1044 Views
the text is not inconsistent. Onarishma - 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM 1464 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that! darius_sedai - 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM 1131 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level Onarishma - 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM 1025 Views
Not so much darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:28:44 AM 1033 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM 1090 Views
I've given this point some thought too ... It's a dicey subject darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:22:23 AM 959 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM 921 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM 1032 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM 1012 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM 1067 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM* Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM 461 Views
Didn't I just say that? darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:31:22 AM 988 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent.... Onarishma - 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM 1026 Views
There is so much evidence against this darius_sedai - 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM 1131 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM 1112 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. fionwe1987 - 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM 986 Views
+500 ... Well said sir! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 04:52:38 AM 762 Views
He's referring to skimming Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM 1176 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM 1025 Views
Re: I think we aren't far off in interpretation Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:41:12 PM 1021 Views
We are close enough on this point darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:02:48 PM 1137 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent. Onarishma - 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM 1062 Views
Please explain Androl then darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM 1074 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM 1024 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent darius_sedai - 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM 1047 Views
there is no waffle here. plenty of syrup though.... Onarishma - 18/10/2012 06:53:34 PM 1098 Views
No it's not darius_sedai - 19/10/2012 04:25:25 AM 924 Views
fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM 897 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power. Onarishma - 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM 1051 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave darius_sedai - 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM 1040 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within Onarishma - 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM 1219 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent? darius_sedai - 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM 997 Views
How do you know there's a difference? Sidious - 06/10/2012 06:53:33 AM 1061 Views
darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:15:25 PM 1046 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM* Onarishma - 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM 678 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 09:57:56 PM 1010 Views
I agree with this PoV Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM 1155 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM 986 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM 1118 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM 1045 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there DomA - 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM 1017 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM 996 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability... Onarishma - 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM 1184 Views
That has no relevance here darius_sedai - 09/10/2012 06:29:34 PM 944 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM 1434 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM 1020 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM 995 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM 1140 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM 1073 Views
I noticed that... fionwe1987 - 07/10/2012 11:38:18 PM 1101 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. Sidious - 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM 988 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. DomA - 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM 1248 Views
On Healing and Yellows... fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 05:24:11 PM 1055 Views
Re: On Healing and Yellows... DomA - 09/10/2012 06:07:20 PM 1169 Views
True darius_sedai - 07/10/2012 10:01:42 PM 1039 Views
Life skills and OP skills... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM 933 Views
Or the reverse could be true darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM 1072 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true Sidious - 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM 1158 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM 1089 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time DomA - 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM 1175 Views
The point is the same regardless darius_sedai - 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM 1111 Views
Here's an answer to your original question Sidious - 06/10/2012 07:21:27 AM 1129 Views
*takes a bow* ... thanks for finding that quote! *NM* darius_sedai - 06/10/2012 08:41:49 PM 567 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true DomA - 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM 1197 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM 1112 Views
I know DomA - 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM 1103 Views
Our stance seems to be Nature v. nurture in nature darius_sedai - 02/10/2012 11:21:50 PM 1080 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented. Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM 1080 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM 1049 Views
Trollocs have dreams Onarishma - 05/10/2012 06:39:49 PM 1113 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes... DomA - 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM 1092 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? LoialT - 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM 1103 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? DomA - 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM 1273 Views
XKCD is on the case! Tor - 03/10/2012 06:05:54 AM 1033 Views
Re: Problems with gateways Onarishma - 04/10/2012 03:10:48 PM 916 Views
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