Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology? - Edit 1
Before modification by DomA at 06/10/2012 10:09:08 PM
I can't remember, but I thought Avendesora was the only chora to survive and that they gave a cutting to the Cairhienen. I suppose even if this was the case that it wouldn't count as reproduction, just a cloning, but it does suggest one way for some constructs to make copies (or have copies made).
Avendesora is either OT for, or a later deformation of (can't be sure as we don't know the OT rules for forming words) of the OT "aviende chora" (Aviendha's name seems to be related to it too, incidentally), ie: chora tree(s). The Aiel brought potted cuttings with them from Paraan Disan (we see the Da'shain with them in TSR) - the one surviving cutting must have grown into "Avendesora". We know from the BWB that chora trees were constructs, and we know they're sterile and don't produce seeds. They're multiplied by making cuttings and making those grow roots. That's how the sappling given to Cairhien was grown.
I am also curious about Someshta... He says he remembers Wolfbrothers when he meets Perrin, but this must mean he is even older than the AOL (or at least was already very old by its end)
That's most unlikely. The BWB, and RJ, told us Nyms were Constructs from the AOL. The oddities are probably to put on this being the first book and RJ didn't have everything aligned perfectly about the back story elements.
He also remarks that it's been TWO thousand years since he's been under Avendesora. Was this a mistake on RJ's part, or did he have something to do with Rhuidean after being set up to guard to the Eye?
My guess is that Someshta is referring to another "avendesora", i.e: a chora tree that survived until the Trolloc Wars before the Nym lost it to the Blight.
Finally, you recently suggested that Nakomi and the Green Man may have been ancient gods predating the Wheel cosmology. Did you mean that the Nym were ancient gods, or that they were created to celebrate that tradition?
The later. My idea derives both from RJ's notion that facts and legends become mixed together and from a remark of LTT who conceive of the Creator as a Gardener in KOD. So one of my ideas was that the Nym were made for practical purposes, but their appearance was modelled in honor of an ancient deity associated with the male principle of the Creator, in the days before the OP was discovered and the Aes Sedai or their forerunners developped a new cosmology with the Creator's energy being the sum of a male and female half, the world being a Pattern etc. The theory was that over time after the Breaking Nym were forgotten and Someshta became the subject of legends, and confused with The Green Man. and yeah, the idea was that Nakomi may have been the female counterpart of the Gardener in the Great Serpent cosmology (but has no relation to Nym or constructs, she's forgotten by all but perhaps scholars or some WO... and probably a theologian like Elan Morin).
That's not my only idea for the origins of Nakomi though. Long before chapter 1 confirmed the name was ancient, I speculated she may have been:
a) an important Da'shain Aiel Madhi from the days of the WoS/Breaking. I'm convinced the Da'shain had an equivalent of what became the Wise Ones, and I'm pretty convinced Madhi (Seeker, as in Seeker in the Dream) was their original title (because we know the meaning of Madhi is a synonym of Wisdom in some areas). So Nakomi may have been a Jenn Aiel WO involved in the compact at Rhuidean. Some WO like Bair may have seen her when they went through the Columns, WO may or not see her depending if their ancestor interacted or not with her. It could mean the apparation of Nakomi to a WO on the eve of TG may have been part of the Columns's original programming.
b) Nakomi may be even more ancient and either be the first Dreamer among the Dai'shain Aiel or even be the founder of the Way of the Leaf.
c) She's even more ancient than this and this used to be a name for the female deity.
Either way it doesn't mean someone didn't borrow the name on purpose, of course. When Bair reveals who that ancient Nakomi was, we'll have a better idea.
Nakomi is the name of a Mother Goddess in Amerindian mythology (associated to the moon). She's the one who taught shamans to make "Dreamcatchers". Of course she would hardly be the only character whose name is taken from a Goddess and it doesn't prove in any way that's a deity's name in WOT (it could be perfectly mundane, like Tuon whose second name is Kore, aka Perséphone, the daughter of the mother Goddess Demeter, and is now name after the roman Goddess Fortuna). She could be any of the above, and a fourth distinct possibility is that this was a new alias of Cyndane, who's used the name of a RW deity before (Selene, a moon goddess... like Nakomi is). It's a distinct possibility what happened in Rhuidean is a scheme of Moridin or Cyndane, but have motives to use Aviendha for a revenge (Moridin promised if the Bowl of Winds was used and the DO's plans disrupted, those responsible would "live to pay". Elayne, the Kinswomen and seemingly the WF have paid, Aviendha and Nynaeve have so far escaped Moridin's revenge... for now, and that we know...).