Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this - Edit 1
Before modification by Sidious at 03/10/2012 07:06:15 AM
Your example fits right in with an ongoing theme in WOT about misconception.
Well one can always bring about the theme of misconception if one doesn't like the evidence placed before them. The truth is there is no misconception - Logain is right. Rand is stronger.
Logain, of all the men out there, shouldn't use this comparison as he had already encountered Androl at this point and fought for him to be raised to Dedicated, or he soon would, based on his remarkable ability. We also know from Naeff (who Logain also knows) that a weaker Channeler with a strong affinity for a flow can match a stronger one, so Logain is even more off base with his assessment as Rand could just as easily be Gifted in Spirit and that would explain a greater effect with a single weave, or he could be both more Gifted and more Talented. No matter how you look at Logain's statement, it's stupid of him, despite being true as his rationale is not well developed since he took only one of the possible reasons Rands gateways were larger into account when there are quiet obviously many other variables that could account for it.
It's not stupid of Logain. You yourself say that he's been exposed to a lot of male channelers. He knows that their strength is well reflected in gateway size. You can't throw out a general trend just because one channeler has an unusual Talent with a weave.
And you are ignoring a bevy of quotes/scenes to the contrary:
1. Siuan specifically states her Healing talent is the same as before. No less despite significantly less Strength
2. Egwene and Elayne are both poor Healers, by your reckoning they should be able to overcome this with more power. We've seen on a number of occasions that this is not the case
3. Androl can make a Gateway as large as Rand
4. Asmodean talks of how poor Semirhage is with Weather
5. Moghedien complaint about her lack of a stronger Talent for Compullsion
6. Naeff matching Nynaeve in Tear with flows of Air
7. Flinn notes he has trouble with gateways, indicating he should be able to make one large based on his strength
1. Siuan specifically states her Healing talent is the same as before. No less despite significantly less Strength
2. Egwene and Elayne are both poor Healers, by your reckoning they should be able to overcome this with more power. We've seen on a number of occasions that this is not the case
3. Androl can make a Gateway as large as Rand
4. Asmodean talks of how poor Semirhage is with Weather
5. Moghedien complaint about her lack of a stronger Talent for Compullsion
6. Naeff matching Nynaeve in Tear with flows of Air
7. Flinn notes he has trouble with gateways, indicating he should be able to make one large based on his strength
I said originally that Talent plays the greatest part in everything, but that it is rare. It is still true that strong channelers can get by with everything. Semirhage can get by with the weather even if she struggles, whereas weak channelers cannot even do that if they have no Talent. Strength obviously has a part to play which is why Moiraine and other channelers sometimes link or use angreal to perform great feats of Healing.
There are dozens more throughout the text ... Point being, you must FIRST possess enough Talent to be effective with the skill, only then will strength allow you to compensate and perhaps create as powerful an effect as a Channeler with a stronger Talent but less raw strength. And in single element weaves flow affinity will also play a part in the end effect or a weave.
If you have zero Talent you can still get by. Rand can Heal even though he isn't very good. We know for a fact that making cuendillar is a Talent, though Egwene directly says that strength in Earth is the key. Therefore a strong channeler will be able to make cuendillar even without the Talent whereas a weak one won't. Give a weak Aes Sedai an angreal and suddenly she can Travel. There are lots of examples. I'm not claiming that strength gives you Talent. I'm saying that someone with no Talent can have a weak ability in everything if they are strong in the Power.
All Logain's quote tells us is that Rand is both stronger and has at least a similar ability with gateways to Logain. By your statement Logain should also think Androl is stronger than he is!
Logain is perfectly correct. You are using an exception to blind you to the rule. Out of all the Asha'man, Androl may be the only one with this gift. Logain has less than 1% chance of being wrong if he looks at a gateway size and assume's the man's strength. In Androl's case he would be wrong, and in Berowin's case we would be wrong about her ability to shield someone. You will still be right about the vast majority of channelers you measure up from a distance.