Suana herself states its not all about Healing ability, but the desire to fix that which is broken. Like almost all AS the Yellow are more like scholars than Doctors. They seem to be more interested in study and Politics just like other AS. Which is why Romanda is amazed with how many Wise Women have such Talent with Healing.
I know, that's why I think Yellows never developped Healing between the "all-heal" weave inherited from the Breaking. They don't even think like medical doctors.
These are the women with the calling, who all coincidentally are born with the Healing Talent?
No, I'm saying these women knew how to heal long before they learned their had the ability. It's not surprising the ability to heal with the OP comes more naturally to them than it does for other channelers. Of course for some of them it would not go far, because they don't have the skill to handle the five flows well enough. Still, channelling is a mental skill and these women think like Doctors. It's not surprising they approach the OP abilities from this frame of mind, and have more success than others at it.
It's the whole mentality of "Talent" that's muddling everything. AS call Talent anything someone shows a proclitivity for, without questionning what might explain why a person might be exceptional at handling the OP this way.
Nowhere have we seen the ability to change ones inherent OP skills through training or other methods.
That's largely because the WT system discouraged this, I think. Women there developped their scholarly and political knowledge and very little else. The WT is also not very interested in practical use of the OP, beyond documenting evidence of what they once were able to do and now have lost.
We've seen women develop new skills... Elayne learned to handle large flows for the weather with a SF. This is also how the WO teach apprentices, and we also have some of the Kin who over centuries of empirical practice became very good at (the old) Healing.
Why should human interests effect your OP ability?
Why not? Weaving is a mental discipline, why your mind, your interests, your already developped skills wouldn't influence the skills you develop with the OP?
You think it's a coincidence that a woman as curious of everything as Egwene is the one who makes so many varied discoveries?
You think it's a coincidence as woman obsessed with inflicting in all imaginable and refined ways pain to a human body and who as a matter of survival had to hide those proclivities has developped amazing skills as a Healer, or that a woman trained in healing the human mind without the OP, to the point of being the most revered psychiatrist of her time just happened to also develop the most amazing skills at Compulsion?
Seems much more plausible that a natural proclivity would gently push a person down the path.
That smacks of predestinity way too much for me. It also seems to give the OP ability a "mind of its own" and to evacuate way too much from the equation environmental factors, like developped or acquired skills and knowledge, education etc. Few people ever develop all their natural skills.
If that was the case Egwene would be a better Healer, she did train for it under Nynaeve.
Egwene was never that interested in Healing. Egwene is interested in way too many things to focus obsessively on something like Nynaeve. And guess what, she doesn't have a very dominant Talent either. She's one of those with a decent balance between the five flows, and very good at doing many things at once. She's got a strength in earth, but she can do many things with it. She's the type to learn something to a level she's happy with and move on to learn something else. Her channelling ability reflects that.
In the end I doubt there is a "right" answer
I doubt it too. I get the feeling Jordan would have said there's a bit of both in play. I just happen to believe your OP ability is shaped far more by who you are than the latent ability "magically" guiding you on a life path. That a latent potential for handling the five flows in Healing makes you interested in Healing and the human body years before you even start to channel smacks of magic to me. It just seems so much more plausible that years of experience at Healing without the OP provides a channeler with the right worldview to develop a natural affinity to use the OP for healing once that person learn to channel. In the end, channeling seems to be a lot a matter of will and desire to create/do something. Egwene thinks about stuff like this a lot, and I don't think it's a coincidence solutions to use the OP to do what she wants come intuitively to her.
Problems with gateways
- 28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
3003 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
- 28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
713 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
- 28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
1209 Views
It's been discussed before...
- 28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
1570 Views
I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
1210 Views
Re: I would agree with this
- 28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
1352 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
- 28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
1342 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
- 04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
1227 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
- 28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
1526 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
- 07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
1048 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
- 28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
1256 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
1453 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
1490 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
1254 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
- 02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
1419 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
- 02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
1161 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
- 02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
1263 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
- 02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
1288 Views
No I think they're more about strength
- 02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
1413 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
1286 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
1266 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
1289 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
- 03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
1232 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
- 03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
1329 Views
She did Heal him
- 04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
1192 Views
Re-read some stuff
- 04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
1288 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
1476 Views
But his thought processes are sound
- 04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
1175 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
1257 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
- 05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
1173 Views
Ummm...
- 05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
1160 Views
Re: Ummm...
- 06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
1284 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
- 06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
1116 Views
I think he did
- 08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
1259 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
- 09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
1165 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
- 09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
1140 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
- 11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
1170 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
- 12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
1096 Views
Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
1056 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
1083 Views
Re: Exactly...
- 10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
1197 Views
AND...
- 10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
1054 Views
Re: AND...
- 11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
1235 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
1158 Views
Re: AND...
- 12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
1214 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
- 13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
1153 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
- 11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
1245 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
1413 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
- 12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
1188 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
- 11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
978 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
- 12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
1220 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
- 04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
1192 Views
to the point on the Circle
- 06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
1218 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
- 07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
1165 Views
I've been thinking about this
- 07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
1117 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
- 07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
1150 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
- 08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
1020 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
- 08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
1203 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
- 08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
1120 Views
Highly doubtful...
- 08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
1156 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
1117 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
- 08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
1155 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
- 08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
1118 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
- 11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
1174 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
- 12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
1184 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
- 19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
1625 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
- 20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
1268 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
- 11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
1168 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
- 11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
1207 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
- 11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
1039 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
- 12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
1140 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
- 07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
1137 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
- 07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
1173 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
- 11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
511 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
- 04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
1186 Views
There is so much evidence against this
- 04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
1253 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
- 05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
1272 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
1106 Views
He's referring to skimming
- 06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
1294 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
- 06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
1147 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
- 07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
1183 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1006 Views
Please explain Androl then
- 07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
1195 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
- 11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
1159 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1197 Views
- 14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
1197 Views
- 07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
1006 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
- 11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
1192 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
- 12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
1159 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
- 18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
1331 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
- 05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
1109 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
- 07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
735 Views
I agree with this PoV
- 06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
1313 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
1126 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
- 08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
1244 Views
I disagree
- 08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
1145 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
- 09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
1146 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
- 09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
1107 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
- 09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
1321 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1599 Views
- 06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
1599 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
1136 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
- 07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
1106 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
1258 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
- 07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
1191 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
1123 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
- 09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
1389 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
- 02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
1074 Views
Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
1231 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
1267 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
1190 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
- 03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
1317 Views
The point is the same regardless
- 03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
1212 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
- 02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
1323 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
- 02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
1231 Views
I know
- 02/10/2012 07:27:14 PM
1259 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
- 05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
1201 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
1210 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
- 06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
1244 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
1254 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
- 06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
1410 Views

