Re: Not sure about the TP bit - Edit 1
Before modification by Sidious at 01/10/2012 04:10:17 PM
I wonder if being turned in some way isolates you from the effect of the taint? There seem to be a great many of these SN and why would Ishamael have trained a bunch of insane channelers or kept them around in one place? My intuition is that they're forbidden or prevented from touching saidin and aren't insane from the Taint. Rather it's the True Power they use, and the DO is not letting them use it in the Town itself... but Moridin of course is allowed.
As for being insane I'm not so sure. The taint is very debilitating... few would last very long if they used saidin without protection, which they may not have/use because they simply don't use saidin...
As for being insane I'm not so sure. The taint is very debilitating... few would last very long if they used saidin without protection, which they may not have/use because they simply don't use saidin...
I'm going to have to go with saidin here too. Its not likely the Dark One would allow these creatures to use the TP and deny it to someone like Demandred. Besides, I think its simple... They are turned by a circle and the DO protects them from the taint (much like we saw from Rahvin's POV). There are two possibilities though... Either they have genuine direct protection from the DO like the Forsaken do, or turning does protect you from the taint as you suggested. I favour the latter. Its likely Semirhage's weave is primarily Spirit based and some form of complex Compulsion, and through the Myrddraal it carries enough of the DO's essence into the victim to fully lace the brain with the True Power. It probably gives humans the same malignant essence that trollocs have. I'm interested to see if Nynaeve can delve some of the corrupted Aes Sedai and heal them. I'm sure their brains will be black with corruption and will resemble a tainted male. The turning probably ensures that the person isnt insane per se, but its quite obvious that there's only a shell left. Its no coincidence that Semirhage discovered the weave and not Graendal... Its an organic brain disease more than a psychiatric ailment, thus Nynaeve's ability to remove it.
The Forsaken oaths are too powerful for these mongrels (they seem like a wild pack). Its probably that Forsaken oaths are obtained in the pit of doom and provide the powers to command Shadowspawn, avoid the taint and allow instant location of the Chosen by the DO or SH. They probably also amplify the inner corruption in these individuals.
I didn't get the impression they've been trained. I think they function as a twisted Aiel society: they train each other, and given the rules in place, it seems to me they must be trained during raids in the Blight, far from the town itself (where it appears they're forbidden to channel or there's a mechanism in place to prevent them touching saidin. We know apparently not all of them have been turned either, it sounds like some were raised there.
I get the impression that they're similar to the Kin, but even less trained. Its possible that Moridin leaves this small zoo to get on with it. They have very basic channeling abilities, possibly only a little better than most female wilders. The tough and the powerful probably survive. They're not insane, they're merely turned, and I think they socialize much like a trolloc clan does. Moridin probably takes the strongest ones sporadically. I think he has a handful of very powerful specimens (them annihilating a whole wall was a high channeling strength), and he trains them further, probably to Ash'aman level of skill, though high in strength.
As for their behaviour and totally wild side, I'm not sure it's insanity so much having been turned... and being Aiel in the first place. RJ gave the impression such people become utterly and completely evil, as if they had been immersed completely in the essence of the DO by the 13x13 ritual. Aiel without ji'e'toh to humanize and civilize them would be pretty frigthening....
I agree with this sentiment.
it's also more like a curse... they want the honour but they don't want to use it unless they must.
Personally I suspect the whole thing about limiting access to the TP is deceitful. By restricting access to the top of the Chosen, the DO sought to increase its appeal to the masses of Chosen who envied them, and it hides its real price from any but the top leaders. I suspect if the AOL Aes Sedai who went to the Shadow had all been granted access to the TP, a high percentage of Aes Sedai would have rethought their allegiance after they touched that inhuman and evil power. So basically the DO restricted knowledge of this to the people so committed to the Shadow there wouldn't even be welcome back to the Light if they wished. And once he got them addicted, there was no way back. Ultimately, the DO might see letting his followers use the essence of his enemy as something he has no choice to tolerate rather then something he's happy about. The Chosen are not permitted to use the OP anywhere close to him, incidentally.
Personally I suspect the whole thing about limiting access to the TP is deceitful. By restricting access to the top of the Chosen, the DO sought to increase its appeal to the masses of Chosen who envied them, and it hides its real price from any but the top leaders. I suspect if the AOL Aes Sedai who went to the Shadow had all been granted access to the TP, a high percentage of Aes Sedai would have rethought their allegiance after they touched that inhuman and evil power. So basically the DO restricted knowledge of this to the people so committed to the Shadow there wouldn't even be welcome back to the Light if they wished. And once he got them addicted, there was no way back. Ultimately, the DO might see letting his followers use the essence of his enemy as something he has no choice to tolerate rather then something he's happy about. The Chosen are not permitted to use the OP anywhere close to him, incidentally.
I'm not so sure. I think the DO is more vulnerable to TP than the OP. I think he does indulge the Forsaken their petty little status game, but he really does seem to place its use in the hands of those he trusts (all things being relative). I doubt there were degrees of treachery in the War of Power.. Who would be allowed back? There's also no evidence of this addiction apart from Ishamael so who knows who these other 26 channelers were and if they included the 13 Forsaken? Lews Therin knew about the TP and dreaded it, saying that it is the DO himself. Its possible the Forsaken wanted to bathe in his "glory" or some other tripe and would have minded too much if someone warned them of addiction. It might even be an incentive.
They wouldn't know how to use saidin if they're forbidden to use it and must use the TP when they channel. They couldn't defend against Moridin.
I doubt they could anyway. Apart from him being one of the most dangerous men alive, they're probably little more than wilders. Incidentally who do you believe commands them if you claim they don't know Moridin? I think they're his ant farm.
Men can't know if another has the ability unless he channels or is holding the source. The TP is undetectable by anyone but the user and the DO, even if you're a TP user too.
I wonder how far he is with his saa? He might be close to getting his flaming eyes. Ishamael took at most a decade to gain his fiery appearance.
The evidence is that they didn't know Moridin. I think the older ones train the new arrivals, that's all. It's apparently been going for 2000 years - they don't need Ishamael's help.
I doubt Moridin started this business but I'm sure he's capitalized on it. It was probably started a by a few dreadlords after the Breaking.
I'm pretty sure there's a circle of DF among the Aiel - how could Melindrah have been one without that? - and that there's a line of DF WO, choosing and training others each generation. I suspect it's Bair who's the top DF honcho. We'll know when she comes back from Rhuidean. Many prefer Sorilea for it, but I think she's a red herring. Sorilea just had the chance to grab the tiller following Aviendha's vision, and she didn't take it. Bair, however, did - and by going herself she pretty much ensured the other WO wouldn't feel like they need to send a third person to verify Bair's verification of what Aviendha saw. Bair might return saying she saw another future completely, proving Aviendha's but a possibility. Bair as a WO and a dreamer would of course be an ideal asset for Ishamael.
I've long suspected Sorilea. I'll have to check back but I thought she was integral in Semirhage's acquisition of the domination band. I may be wrong though, I dont know if it was confirmed that Elza worked alone.