I posted something very similar at DM. Reposting...
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 28/09/2012 11:46:07 PM
Funnily enough, I also found that exact conversation between Egwene and Elayne to be very jarring. Here's what I put up at DM.
Good to see Egwene back also - if it is a little jarring and obvious retcon, it needed to be done and I am happy.
Me too. I was seriously worried Brandon would go the other way and continue writing Egwene the way he was. Fan noise seems to have reached him on this though.
Reading her PoV, one thing strikes me. The biggest flaw to Brandon's writing is that when characters start talking, we stop seeing their points of view. With Jordan, these would constantly intermingle, giving us a character's PoV while they were conversing. This added dept to those conversations, but more importantly, this was the way sarcasm or humor would often be injected into the story. I think one reason why Mat fails is that we don't have this constant interplay of thought and conversation. Its blocks of one followed by blocks of other.
With someone like Egwene, it simply makes her seem less intelligent. Usually, if she'd heard Elayne say "let the DO be freed", she'd have a lot of thoughts about it. Here, we have to infer it, and that's not exactly done in a good way, especially since we rarely get to read characters physical reactions, facial expressions, etc. either, when they talk.
Here's an example of what I mean. The bolded parts are my additions:
Or something like that, at least. I'd rather Brandon spend time on things like this than on the exact tone of each character. Without something like this, what we get really reads like an unfleshed first draft. We're getting the bare skeleton of the story, with a lot of the flesh missing.
Good to see Egwene back also - if it is a little jarring and obvious retcon, it needed to be done and I am happy.
Me too. I was seriously worried Brandon would go the other way and continue writing Egwene the way he was. Fan noise seems to have reached him on this though.
Reading her PoV, one thing strikes me. The biggest flaw to Brandon's writing is that when characters start talking, we stop seeing their points of view. With Jordan, these would constantly intermingle, giving us a character's PoV while they were conversing. This added dept to those conversations, but more importantly, this was the way sarcasm or humor would often be injected into the story. I think one reason why Mat fails is that we don't have this constant interplay of thought and conversation. Its blocks of one followed by blocks of other.
With someone like Egwene, it simply makes her seem less intelligent. Usually, if she'd heard Elayne say "let the DO be freed", she'd have a lot of thoughts about it. Here, we have to infer it, and that's not exactly done in a good way, especially since we rarely get to read characters physical reactions, facial expressions, etc. either, when they talk.
Here's an example of what I mean. The bolded parts are my additions:
“Thank you very much for the advice,” Elayne said, “which I will ignore, as I ignored Birgitte when she said the same thing. Mother, what is it you wished to discuss?”
Egwene handed over the letter she had been working on.
Elayne scanned the top of the letter. “To Rand?” Elayne (she) asked.
“You have a different perspective on him than I. Tell me what you think of this letter. I might not send it to him. I haven’t decided yet.”
Elayne's face gave nothing away as she read the letter. She looked serene. As an Aes Sedai should. As a Queen should. How would she react to this? Egwene placed much trust on Elayne. The woman was in love with Rand, but Egwene trusted her to place the rationality of their arguments above her feelings. At least, she added to herself, I hope I can.
“The tone is . . . forceful,” Elayne noted. She did not seem surprised.
“He doesn’t seem to respond to anything else.” Egwene could well remember their arguments as they grew up in Emond's Field. Him saying the most infuriating things. Her trying to make sense. At least, that was the way of it most of the time.
They had thought they would marry, then, yet that hadn't stopped them from rubbing each other the wrong way every so often. Now... now we stand as leaders of the world. An ancient man in the mind of a boy, and a girl bearing a title almost as ancient. They couldn't walk away from each other in a huff this time.
After a moment of reading Elayne lowered the letter. “Perhaps we should simply let him do as he wishes.”
“Break the seals?” Egwene asked, startled. “Release the Dark One?”
“Why not?”, Elayne asked, as if asking why there should be no rain from clouds.
“Light, Elayne!, Egwene said, troubled. If her closest friends doubted her course, what chance did she have of convincing Rand? And Perrin too, as if one mule headed stubborn man weren't enough. All they needed was for Mat to appear, and the entire lot of them could talk sense till they were hoarse, and nothing would change.
“It has to happen, doesn’t it?” Elayne asked. “I mean, the Dark One’s going to escape. He’s practically free already.”
Egwene rubbed her temples, thinking. She chose her words carefully. Elayne's point was not without merit. Perhaps if she had she not had that dream before Rand came, she would have seen things differently too. But now... now she knew. This was not instinct. Not even just the Dream, which she hadn't even revealed to the Wise Ones. The Tower was a treasure trove of obscure knowledge, and on this issue, she had found plenty of useful nuggets. Time to see if they were worth anything.
“There is a difference between touching the world and being free. During the War of Power, the Dark One was never truly released into the world. The Bore let him touch it, but that was resealed before he could escape. If the Dark One had entered the world, the Wheel itself would have been broken. Here, I brought this to show you.”
Egwene handed over the letter she had been working on.
Elayne scanned the top of the letter. “To Rand?” Elayne (she) asked.
“You have a different perspective on him than I. Tell me what you think of this letter. I might not send it to him. I haven’t decided yet.”
Elayne's face gave nothing away as she read the letter. She looked serene. As an Aes Sedai should. As a Queen should. How would she react to this? Egwene placed much trust on Elayne. The woman was in love with Rand, but Egwene trusted her to place the rationality of their arguments above her feelings. At least, she added to herself, I hope I can.
“The tone is . . . forceful,” Elayne noted. She did not seem surprised.
“He doesn’t seem to respond to anything else.” Egwene could well remember their arguments as they grew up in Emond's Field. Him saying the most infuriating things. Her trying to make sense. At least, that was the way of it most of the time.
They had thought they would marry, then, yet that hadn't stopped them from rubbing each other the wrong way every so often. Now... now we stand as leaders of the world. An ancient man in the mind of a boy, and a girl bearing a title almost as ancient. They couldn't walk away from each other in a huff this time.
After a moment of reading Elayne lowered the letter. “Perhaps we should simply let him do as he wishes.”
“Break the seals?” Egwene asked, startled. “Release the Dark One?”
“Why not?”, Elayne asked, as if asking why there should be no rain from clouds.
“Light, Elayne!, Egwene said, troubled. If her closest friends doubted her course, what chance did she have of convincing Rand? And Perrin too, as if one mule headed stubborn man weren't enough. All they needed was for Mat to appear, and the entire lot of them could talk sense till they were hoarse, and nothing would change.
“It has to happen, doesn’t it?” Elayne asked. “I mean, the Dark One’s going to escape. He’s practically free already.”
Egwene rubbed her temples, thinking. She chose her words carefully. Elayne's point was not without merit. Perhaps if she had she not had that dream before Rand came, she would have seen things differently too. But now... now she knew. This was not instinct. Not even just the Dream, which she hadn't even revealed to the Wise Ones. The Tower was a treasure trove of obscure knowledge, and on this issue, she had found plenty of useful nuggets. Time to see if they were worth anything.
“There is a difference between touching the world and being free. During the War of Power, the Dark One was never truly released into the world. The Bore let him touch it, but that was resealed before he could escape. If the Dark One had entered the world, the Wheel itself would have been broken. Here, I brought this to show you.”
Or something like that, at least. I'd rather Brandon spend time on things like this than on the exact tone of each character. Without something like this, what we get really reads like an unfleshed first draft. We're getting the bare skeleton of the story, with a lot of the flesh missing.
If you have to call someone "my friend" three times in a couple of minutes, he isn't.
28/09/2012 11:59:13 AM
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The only people I've ever heard say "my friend" are foreign street vendors
28/09/2012 01:19:00 PM
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Sanderson's handling of character interractions is pathetic....
28/09/2012 06:43:48 PM
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Now see, here I don't fully agree, or at least think it's a matter of taste.
28/09/2012 07:21:09 PM
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Sorry, that's just not true...
28/09/2012 11:33:59 PM
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I posted something very similar at DM. Reposting...
28/09/2012 11:46:07 PM
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I complained about this regarding the Forsaken chapter
28/09/2012 07:34:25 PM
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I've long since accepted that Sanderson uses inaccurate terms like "powerful"
29/09/2012 05:44:11 AM
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To be fair, the last Moghedian PoV by RJ might have changed her a bit.
29/09/2012 03:27:31 PM
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Yes. The last time it happened to me it ended with the taxi driver fined by the NYPD.
29/09/2012 07:05:26 AM
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The burning question to me, after reading all of the comments above, is this...
29/09/2012 08:50:50 AM
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Piggybacking on someone else's established characters and near-climax-point plot?
29/09/2012 03:04:03 PM
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Both of you disgust me
29/09/2012 04:13:16 PM
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To be fair...
29/09/2012 04:36:52 PM
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True ... He may not be perfect, and he certainly made some strange choices
29/09/2012 05:37:29 PM
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B-Sand is not a ghost writer
29/09/2012 06:35:16 PM
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Didn't say he should.
29/09/2012 09:07:45 PM
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What is it you want?
29/09/2012 09:39:36 PM
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We want to bitch about an inferior product. Duh.
29/09/2012 10:00:09 PM
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Hmm that's true I guess. Sad though *NM*
29/09/2012 10:07:25 PM
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It is what it is
30/09/2012 12:52:20 AM
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You do know this isn't his series, right?
29/09/2012 04:19:00 PM
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Do you see us going to Mistborn boards to rip his series? Part of the problem is what you say.
29/09/2012 09:57:54 PM
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Apologies for not being clear: I'm only referring to WoT. Haven't read any of his other work...
30/09/2012 06:56:08 PM
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I'd agree that I like his original works more than his WoT books
01/10/2012 06:17:33 PM
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It's fairly simple....
30/09/2012 09:55:52 PM
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Thanks for that insightful response...
30/09/2012 10:37:27 PM
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Try reading something instead of judging. I recommend the Mistborn trilogy *NM*
01/10/2012 01:14:24 AM
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It's more...
01/10/2012 01:05:18 PM
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Re: The burning question to me, after reading all of the comments above, is this...
11/10/2012 08:22:27 PM
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I have an acquaintance who uses "my friend" as punctuation of every sentence.
05/10/2012 02:47:40 PM
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