RJ had a solid background in Physics and no doubt made up strict rules and explanations for all this, but IRRC he never explained what they were.
As far as I remember, no perfect explananation for this was found except some suggested it's not a simple "physical hole" like a doorway that lets anything through... that when something goes through, it involves a manipulation or twisting of reality. So it looks like you're simply physically going from one side to the other, but in truth it's far more complex than this.
Those that can't go through Gateways support this reasoning: they are the Constructs, in other words men-made (with the OP) lifeforms, thus "artificial". Those we know can't use Gateways include Shadowspawn and Nym, so this isn't a Shadow thing (the gholam exception is very likely a Sanderson retcon because he had the gholam not die in TOM.. Jordan probably intended the gholam to die going through the gateway but he knew constructs couldn't survive this and didn't specify in a note to himself the gholam died, just that Mat would have it go through a gateway...) It seems to some that the Wheel is just unable to perform the "thread twisting" involved to let them pass through gateways. They just die. It might be true of vegetal constructs like Chora Trees as well.
My guess is that the Wheel doesn't let air pressure differences etc. occur. Each side of the Gateway remains separate, the hole is there but not really a physical hole, more like a threshold. When a being or object go through, there's some twisting of reality to make it pass through one point in the pattern to another, it's not simply walking through. Objects can go through gateways, the Seanchan sent projectiles through Elayne's. It could mean making a Gateway to the bottom of the Ocean wouldn't make all the water flood the other side either. Some habve suggested what looks like a simple hole is more like an invisible metaphysical "membrane" between two points in the Pattern, that you can pass through it without noticing that, that you can send an object through it, that animals can go through it but that the two points joined remain distinct and there's no real physical interraction from anything without sentience or will involved.. heat or cold, winds and such. IRRC, there was no snow that went through Aviendha's gateway into Rand's quarters in Rhuidean.
As far as I remember, no perfect explananation for this was found except some suggested it's not a simple "physical hole" like a doorway that lets anything through... that when something goes through, it involves a manipulation or twisting of reality. So it looks like you're simply physically going from one side to the other, but in truth it's far more complex than this.
Those that can't go through Gateways support this reasoning: they are the Constructs, in other words men-made (with the OP) lifeforms, thus "artificial". Those we know can't use Gateways include Shadowspawn and Nym, so this isn't a Shadow thing (the gholam exception is very likely a Sanderson retcon because he had the gholam not die in TOM.. Jordan probably intended the gholam to die going through the gateway but he knew constructs couldn't survive this and didn't specify in a note to himself the gholam died, just that Mat would have it go through a gateway...) It seems to some that the Wheel is just unable to perform the "thread twisting" involved to let them pass through gateways. They just die. It might be true of vegetal constructs like Chora Trees as well.
My guess is that the Wheel doesn't let air pressure differences etc. occur. Each side of the Gateway remains separate, the hole is there but not really a physical hole, more like a threshold. When a being or object go through, there's some twisting of reality to make it pass through one point in the pattern to another, it's not simply walking through. Objects can go through gateways, the Seanchan sent projectiles through Elayne's. It could mean making a Gateway to the bottom of the Ocean wouldn't make all the water flood the other side either. Some habve suggested what looks like a simple hole is more like an invisible metaphysical "membrane" between two points in the Pattern, that you can pass through it without noticing that, that you can send an object through it, that animals can go through it but that the two points joined remain distinct and there's no real physical interraction from anything without sentience or will involved.. heat or cold, winds and such. IRRC, there was no snow that went through Aviendha's gateway into Rand's quarters in Rhuidean.
Problems with gateways
28/09/2012 05:02:47 PM
- 2805 Views
Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... a wizard did it. *NM*
28/09/2012 05:47:13 PM
- 618 Views
Yeah, I realize that raising physics questions about fantasy books can be absurd...
28/09/2012 06:03:05 PM
- 1015 Views
It's been discussed before...
28/09/2012 06:04:35 PM
- 1353 Views
I would agree with this
28/09/2012 06:35:14 PM
- 1019 Views
Re: I would agree with this
28/09/2012 06:56:57 PM
- 1163 Views
Egwene would likely also know since she puzzled it out as well
28/09/2012 07:28:22 PM
- 1124 Views
Especially when opening a gateway into a void like in Skimming (though that is probably T'A'R too)
04/10/2012 03:13:29 PM
- 1037 Views
Regarding shadowspawn:
28/09/2012 07:19:38 PM
- 1301 Views
Found an interesting quote when I was looking into something else
07/10/2012 12:57:21 AM
- 841 Views
I don't think RJ thought about it
28/09/2012 07:44:34 PM
- 1053 Views
Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
28/09/2012 11:02:39 PM
- 1252 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
01/10/2012 09:03:47 PM
- 1270 Views
Androl throws a kink in this
02/10/2012 01:14:16 AM
- 1045 Views
Re: Androl throws a kink in this
02/10/2012 02:30:23 AM
- 1215 Views
He said he can make one large enough for a Wagon to pass through
02/10/2012 03:23:26 AM
- 964 Views
Gateway Talent I'd say
02/10/2012 08:55:26 AM
- 1062 Views
I think Androl is proof that gateways are more about a the Talent than strength
02/10/2012 09:00:26 AM
- 1096 Views
No I think they're more about strength
02/10/2012 09:27:17 AM
- 1230 Views
I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
02/10/2012 04:47:59 PM
- 1033 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 07:04:11 AM
- 1074 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 07:43:12 AM
- 1085 Views
Re: I disagree with Logain being a credible source on this
03/10/2012 09:59:13 AM
- 1051 Views
Egwene could not heal Gawyn
03/10/2012 02:34:08 PM
- 1127 Views
She did Heal him
04/10/2012 08:30:14 AM
- 1018 Views
Re-read some stuff
04/10/2012 07:57:50 PM
- 1080 Views
Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
03/10/2012 02:13:08 PM
- 1286 Views
But his thought processes are sound
04/10/2012 08:20:13 AM
- 964 Views
It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
04/10/2012 09:48:49 PM
- 1057 Views
Re: It's in Chapter 5 of TGS
05/10/2012 08:28:13 AM
- 987 Views
Ummm...
05/10/2012 08:42:19 PM
- 982 Views
Re: Ummm...
06/10/2012 07:53:10 AM
- 1091 Views
I don't think RJ changed his mind
06/10/2012 03:13:44 PM
- 926 Views
I think he did
08/10/2012 05:32:35 PM
- 1060 Views
She wouldn't have to guess!
09/10/2012 08:43:54 PM
- 963 Views
Really? Where is that quote? All we've heard is a woman needs to be strong enough
09/10/2012 11:44:15 PM
- 964 Views
There is only one book left. It is definitely not LIKELY
11/10/2012 08:06:04 PM
- 999 Views
I can agree with most of that ... I simply believe that the Talent dictates the amount of strength
12/10/2012 03:53:21 AM
- 926 Views
Exactly...
10/10/2012 12:35:16 AM
- 843 Views
Re: Exactly...
10/10/2012 10:29:13 AM
- 902 Views
Re: Exactly...
10/10/2012 10:06:08 PM
- 1009 Views
AND...
10/10/2012 10:15:14 PM
- 873 Views
Re: AND...
11/10/2012 04:46:31 PM
- 1025 Views
Re: AND...
12/10/2012 04:09:25 AM
- 970 Views
Re: AND...
12/10/2012 08:57:46 AM
- 1006 Views
I only discount direct statements when we are explicitly shown that they are incorrect
13/10/2012 06:55:38 PM
- 953 Views
Because let's be honest, it's rarely a Talent and you both know it
11/10/2012 04:44:27 PM
- 1015 Views
You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
12/10/2012 04:13:06 AM
- 1197 Views
Re: You are basing this entire post on a fundamentally flawed premise
12/10/2012 08:52:02 AM
- 991 Views
Apoplexy, that is what is happening on my side of the screen
11/10/2012 08:31:30 PM
- 764 Views
the fact that Egwene is proven incorrect on this any number of times?
12/10/2012 04:14:35 AM
- 1028 Views
Re: Logain may be correct that Rand is stronger, but his reason is not correct
04/10/2012 09:51:08 PM
- 964 Views
to the point on the Circle
06/10/2012 09:36:18 PM
- 1011 Views
Circles don't add the Talents...
07/10/2012 03:34:47 AM
- 966 Views
I've been thinking about this
07/10/2012 10:11:22 PM
- 924 Views
Circles give added precision, remember?
07/10/2012 11:27:05 PM
- 965 Views
I get that, but the evidence in front of me from the text is inconsistent to the quote
08/10/2012 12:11:15 AM
- 835 Views
Circles of larger numbers give added benefit...
08/10/2012 02:00:58 AM
- 1015 Views
Egwene with a sa'angreal might be like 15x her natural strength, so maybe 9-10x Rand
08/10/2012 02:59:26 AM
- 910 Views
Highly doubtful...
08/10/2012 01:36:47 PM
- 952 Views
Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
08/10/2012 03:31:20 PM
- 930 Views
Re: Meh, I don't really care all that much, I just don't think this adds up to the text.
08/10/2012 05:57:04 PM
- 942 Views
That is actually the crux of my issue
08/10/2012 07:52:52 PM
- 921 Views
That's why its called exponential. It is NOT linear and that why the gains look ridiculous
11/10/2012 10:00:15 PM
- 966 Views
Yet that only explains when a circle does certain things
12/10/2012 04:18:36 AM
- 964 Views
the text is not inconsistent.
19/10/2012 08:20:52 PM
- 1420 Views
I see, it only counts when it supports your point! Why didn't I think of that!
20/10/2012 03:58:27 AM
- 1064 Views
RJ specifically said that was ONLY because of Forsaken skill level
11/10/2012 09:02:03 PM
- 951 Views
I'm still arguing about this but I think the evidence is that AS holding a shield are not linked.
11/10/2012 08:59:20 PM
- 1015 Views
THAT is proof of the power of LINKING. This is why thirteen Morgases could smash Rand.
11/10/2012 08:41:45 PM
- 845 Views
It's one example that supports the exponential increase ... not arguing that
12/10/2012 04:40:08 AM
- 958 Views
Re: to the point on the Circle
07/10/2012 06:09:48 PM
- 937 Views
Healing is a thing of the physical body
07/10/2012 09:50:37 PM
- 981 Views
Suian was stilled for hiding these boys. obviously trust was the issue. not healing skill. *NM*
11/10/2012 10:11:50 PM
- 441 Views
That's what makes a Talent a Talent....
04/10/2012 05:02:36 PM
- 960 Views
There is so much evidence against this
04/10/2012 08:04:45 PM
- 1051 Views
Androl does not match Rands Gateway size.
05/10/2012 05:59:34 PM
- 1042 Views
Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
05/10/2012 08:51:58 PM
- 919 Views
He's referring to skimming
06/10/2012 07:08:14 AM
- 1101 Views
I think we aren't far off in interpretation
06/10/2012 02:48:46 PM
- 955 Views
Re: Rand states straight out that gateway size is not OP strength dependent.
07/10/2012 06:37:32 PM
- 990 Views
Please explain Androl then
07/10/2012 09:48:54 PM
- 1010 Views
OMG. Androl DOES have a Talent. NO ONE is disputing that.
11/10/2012 10:50:41 PM
- 958 Views
You have waffled back and forth on Traveling being a Talent
14/10/2012 03:01:03 AM
- 974 Views
07/10/2012 11:35:00 PM
- 832 Views
i will gladly find you the quote where it it is the right size and ONLY takes more power.
11/10/2012 11:18:15 PM
- 975 Views
I don't think so... Spirit is used in many weaves (like Healing) as part of the weave
12/10/2012 04:38:29 AM
- 965 Views
I was incorrect about the size. but ultimately not incorrect about her evaluation quote within
18/10/2012 03:28:30 PM
- 1135 Views
How many different times does the text have to say Traveling is a Talent?
05/10/2012 11:54:19 PM
- 930 Views
the text calls a lot of things Talents when they're just lost weaves...Traveling is one of them. *NM*
07/10/2012 07:03:35 PM
- 652 Views
I agree with this PoV
06/10/2012 07:19:52 AM
- 1085 Views
Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
06/10/2012 03:36:24 PM
- 915 Views
I think you use the word Talent too liberally
08/10/2012 05:45:39 PM
- 1043 Views
I disagree
08/10/2012 08:08:04 PM
- 974 Views
I sort of agree with Sidious there
09/10/2012 03:03:54 PM
- 947 Views
Flinn has difficulty with the weave. Unlike Aviendha he doesn't has a second weave problem
09/10/2012 06:17:34 PM
- 917 Views
Re: Yes, Healing Talent is incredibly rare and only implies out of proportion ability...
09/10/2012 02:37:10 PM
- 1107 Views
Beonin's Gateway v. Egwene's v. Rand's v. Aviendha and Elayne Edit: made a math mistake
06/10/2012 08:34:56 PM
- 1360 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
07/10/2012 03:49:05 AM
- 950 Views
This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue. And some added points to consider
07/10/2012 04:09:33 AM
- 921 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
07/10/2012 07:46:51 PM
- 1064 Views
Cadsuane possessing a strong Talent for Traveling would not be surprising to me
07/10/2012 10:15:17 PM
- 987 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
08/10/2012 05:47:57 PM
- 922 Views
Re: This debate is restricted by the "largest Gateway possible" issue.
09/10/2012 05:08:34 PM
- 1157 Views
Life skills and OP skills...
02/10/2012 06:40:00 AM
- 862 Views
Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 08:43:37 AM
- 1001 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 09:12:28 AM
- 1094 Views
And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
02/10/2012 04:55:30 PM
- 1026 Views
Re: And Egwene was training to be Wisdom ... I don't know that any of this is true 100% of the time
03/10/2012 12:55:01 AM
- 1091 Views
The point is the same regardless
03/10/2012 05:14:36 AM
- 1023 Views
Re: Or the reverse could be true
02/10/2012 01:02:03 PM
- 1127 Views
You misunderstand the nature of the Yellow
02/10/2012 05:06:20 PM
- 1047 Views
weaves are not magical entities that exist in channelers. They are tools that are invented.
05/10/2012 06:17:31 PM
- 1009 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
02/10/2012 06:38:11 AM
- 971 Views
Re: Gateways, Tel'aran'rhiod and Dreamspikes...
06/10/2012 02:05:30 PM
- 1017 Views
Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
06/10/2012 06:54:27 PM
- 1016 Views
Re: Was Avendoraldera a separate construct, and what to make of the Green Man cosmology?
06/10/2012 10:04:41 PM
- 1201 Views