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I think you're going to be disappointed Sidious Send a noteboard - 27/09/2012 07:17:30 AM

I found the paragraph about Demandred to be the best piece of writing I've seen from Sanderson.

"Ïf I had offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I had congratulated instead of competed. If I had been the man I am now."

For the first time, a Forsaken is not simply portrayed as a two dimensional card board cutout of a stereotypical bad guy.

I'm pretty sure RJ isn't going to spend any time fleshing out Demandred. RJ has never investigated evil, the degrees thereof, or circumstances that contributed to it. He was far more obsessed with good and how it could be corrupted.

No one can deny that RJ's villains are cartoonish. The idea that a villain could be evil and effective is foreign to the series, though it does seem that Demandred may have accomplished something. The Forsaken have almost all died and the Light have still not suffered a significant fatality. It's all rather amusing.

"Ooh, they're all Nazi war criminals in fantasy dress, they're all failed personalities, wrapped in their own banal narcicism with no depth whatsoever."

The "banality of evil", as some like to constantly refer to their dumbass exploits and petty vendettas.

Well that's the Forsaken in a nutshell. Rand really had no chance at losing. It's all about a few moments of torture before being rescued by someone. When you blow up the wrong side of the Palace, you know you're in trouble...

For the first time, we see Demandred portrayed as a potential hero, and that Lews Therin's own faults were at least partly to blame for driving him to the Shadow.

I think Lews Therin can be blamed for 1% of Demandred's conversion. It's similar to blaming Rand for being mean to Logain, that drove him to convert to the Shadow. It's idiotic.

Demandred allowed his own ambition to be the greatest to drive him to forsake all his morals. You don't just sign up with the Shadow as a member to oppose Lews Therin. You allow yourself to become a mass murderer, torturer, betrayer and pretty much everything evil in the world. You can't blame Lews Therin for that, you've got to open yourself to it.

There's also a strong element of cowardice in both Sammael and Demandred - leaving as they saw the Light start to buckle.

Maybe Demandred has more foundation for his grudge than the one sided views have led us to believe up to now.

It doesn't matter how Lews Therin treated him, it gave him no excuse to turn on the rest of humanity to sort out his grudge. It would be similar to Egwene joining the Shadow to destroy the Seanchan. We could write about how she was treated, but it's an idiots choice.

Wouldn't that be wonderfully novel and refreshing? A bit of Martinesque "grey character" building, with Demandred not quite as automatically bad as we were led to believe, and Lews Therin not as intrinsically good and holy as we thought.

I question anyone who was one day your comrade, and the next day allows your city and citizens to be fed to the Trollocs.

Seems like Lews Therin's own pride competed quite vigourously with that of Demandred. Neither was an angel, it would seem.

Neither was an angel, but turning to the Shadow is a big step to the other side.

Demandred is showing a hint of three dimensionality - the first time that we see this for any of the Chosen. And maybe, just maybe, we have Sanderson to thank for that.

Graendal and Moridin have had some depth already.

Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear

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AMOL chapter 1: Demandred Sidious - 26/09/2012 05:56:20 PM 1802 Views

I found this utterly refreshing. A Forsaken who isn't 100% villain, and LTT who wasn't 100% the hero Shannow - 26/09/2012 06:50:40 PM 1218 Views

But... DomA - 26/09/2012 07:57:20 PM 1087 Views

I think you are getting your hopes up unjustifiably. Narg - 26/09/2012 07:59:37 PM 879 Views

Getting my hopes up that RJ improved his portrayal of villains, yes. Shannow - 26/09/2012 09:20:50 PM 1078 Views

That's just ridiculous... fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 02:09:42 AM 784 Views

Quit being such a Forsaken FanBoy

darius_sedai - 27/09/2012 12:55:41 AM 773 Views

I agree, I would love to see Demandred throw a coup and become ultra-badass Naeblis Praziquantel - 27/09/2012 04:03:02 AM 703 Views

I think you're going to be disappointed Sidious - 27/09/2012 07:17:30 AM 1104 Views

Undoubtedly I will be... Shannow - 27/09/2012 07:59:46 AM 921 Views

Re: Undoubtedly I will be... Sidious - 27/09/2012 09:16:29 AM 994 Views

The duel with Lanfear killed hundreds of innocent bystanders? Narg - 27/09/2012 03:40:14 PM 844 Views

Re: The duel with Lanfear killed hundreds of innocent bystanders? Sidious - 27/09/2012 03:45:22 PM 855 Views

Re: AMOL chapter 1: Demandred dadof5 - 26/09/2012 09:35:29 PM 975 Views

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<quote id="262334">
<quote>I found the paragraph about Demandred to be the best piece of writing I've seen from Sanderson.

"Ïf I had offered a hand instead of a smirk, if I had congratulated instead of competed. If I had been the man I am now."

For the first time, a Forsaken is not simply portrayed as a two dimensional card board cutout of a stereotypical bad guy.</quote>

No one can deny that RJ's villains are cartoonish. The idea that a villain could be evil and effective is foreign to the series, though it does seem that Demandred may have accomplished something. The Forsaken have almost all died and the Light have still not suffered a significant fatality. It's all rather amusing.

<quote>"Ooh, they're all Nazi war criminals in fantasy dress, they're all failed personalities, wrapped in their own banal narcicism with no depth whatsoever."

The "banality of evil", as some like to constantly refer to their dumbass exploits and petty vendettas.</quote>

<quote>For the first time, we see Demandred portrayed as a potential hero, and that Lews Therin's own faults were at least partly to blame for driving him to the Shadow.</quote>

I think Lews Therin can be blamed for 1% of Demandred's conversion. It's similar to blaming Rand for being mean to Logain, that drove him to convert to the Shadow. It's idiotic.

Demandred allowed his own ambition to be the greatest to drive him to forsake all his morals. You don't just sign up with the Shadow as a member to oppose Lews Therin. You allow yourself to become a mass murderer, torturer, betrayer and pretty much everything evil in the world. You can't blame Lews Therin for that, you've got to open yourself to it.

There's also a strong element of cowardice in both Sammael and Demandred - leaving as they saw the Light start to buckle.

<quote>Maybe Demandred has more foundation for his grudge than the one sided views have led us to believe up to now. </quote>

<quote>Wouldn't that be wonderfully novel and refreshing? A bit of Martinesque "grey character" building, with Demandred not quite as automatically bad as we were led to believe, and Lews Therin not as intrinsically good and holy as we thought.</quote>

I question anyone who was one day your comrade, and the next day allows your city and citizens to be fed to the Trollocs.

<quote>Seems like Lews Therin's own pride competed quite vigourously with that of Demandred. Neither was an angel, it would seem.</quote>

Neither was an angel, but turning to the Shadow is a big step to the other side.

<quote>Demandred is showing a hint of three dimensionality - the first time that we see this for any of the Chosen. And maybe, just maybe, we have Sanderson to thank for that.</quote>

Graendal and Moridin have had some depth already.
</quote>

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