I still find far more likely she's referring to information she got from her own BA. Moghedien in book 4 showed a disctinct lack of knowledge and interest in what didn't concern her little domain in the south. She didn't even know Rand's name.
Beside, as we know Moghedien is still running those BA. She had no need to go to the Tower to get Alviarin to tell her what one of her own pet BA could tell her. Notice she doesn't even wonder if Hessalam could be Sharina. She simply has no idea Sharina exists. She must have thought an instant Hessalam was BA - perhaps even that she was their leader or something.
I don't think the new scene tells us much about strength, but I get the feeling Moghedien was probably always underestimated because of her personality.
I don't think she's much weaker than the others, probably just by something like the difference between book 4 Nynaeve and Nynaeve at full potential. I think Nynaeve at full potential is probably in the range of the levels on which Graendal, Semiraghe, Mesaana stand. She could be on a level lower for instance, or at the lower threshold of the same level, or their equal more or less. I get the feeling all those women are distributed on few levels, a few below Lanfear.
It could be significant, but in that range it's far more the combination of knowledge, training, experience, Talents and skills that would set these women apart than raw strength, and in combat it's only if they find themselves in a head-to-head confrontation strength could be a determining factor. I think only Lanfear/Cyndane has a clear raw strength advantage over the other women - which is useful only in some situtations, and even then they're all strong enough they'd probably dare attack her if they had a plan they believe would neutralize her strength advantage.. Graendal did... with a small angreal and her most potent weave she took Moghedien and Cyndane face on, both at once.
Moghedien simply overcame most of her complex of inferiority since the Cleansing. The fact she was in disgrace and humilitated still made her feel inferior to the others, but now that Graendal's joined the club Moghedien realized Graendal no longer intimidates her at all and she dared laughed at her openly. What the scene tells us about their respective strengths is more or less only that Moghedien's not weaker nearly enough to stop her from provoking Graendal. It was more a matter of complex of inferiority and lack of self-confidence that made her stood aside to an extent, made her avoid being openly challenging because she feared confronting them openly. Not anymore, not for Graendal anyway. She already seemed not to fear Cyndane much.
Beside, as we know Moghedien is still running those BA. She had no need to go to the Tower to get Alviarin to tell her what one of her own pet BA could tell her. Notice she doesn't even wonder if Hessalam could be Sharina. She simply has no idea Sharina exists. She must have thought an instant Hessalam was BA - perhaps even that she was their leader or something.
I don't think the new scene tells us much about strength, but I get the feeling Moghedien was probably always underestimated because of her personality.
I don't think she's much weaker than the others, probably just by something like the difference between book 4 Nynaeve and Nynaeve at full potential. I think Nynaeve at full potential is probably in the range of the levels on which Graendal, Semiraghe, Mesaana stand. She could be on a level lower for instance, or at the lower threshold of the same level, or their equal more or less. I get the feeling all those women are distributed on few levels, a few below Lanfear.
It could be significant, but in that range it's far more the combination of knowledge, training, experience, Talents and skills that would set these women apart than raw strength, and in combat it's only if they find themselves in a head-to-head confrontation strength could be a determining factor. I think only Lanfear/Cyndane has a clear raw strength advantage over the other women - which is useful only in some situtations, and even then they're all strong enough they'd probably dare attack her if they had a plan they believe would neutralize her strength advantage.. Graendal did... with a small angreal and her most potent weave she took Moghedien and Cyndane face on, both at once.
Moghedien simply overcame most of her complex of inferiority since the Cleansing. The fact she was in disgrace and humilitated still made her feel inferior to the others, but now that Graendal's joined the club Moghedien realized Graendal no longer intimidates her at all and she dared laughed at her openly. What the scene tells us about their respective strengths is more or less only that Moghedien's not weaker nearly enough to stop her from provoking Graendal. It was more a matter of complex of inferiority and lack of self-confidence that made her stood aside to an extent, made her avoid being openly challenging because she feared confronting them openly. Not anymore, not for Graendal anyway. She already seemed not to fear Cyndane much.
This message last edited by DomA on 26/09/2012 at 03:05:03 PM
AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers*
- 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM
3575 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before.
- 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM
1785 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right...
- 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM
1730 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power.
- 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM
1718 Views
It was spelled out before.
- 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM
1523 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM*
- 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM
876 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea...
- 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM
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Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events
- 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM
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I know...
- 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM
1564 Views
I'm not so sure
- 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM
1538 Views
Why question it?
- 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM
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Re: Why question it?
- 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM
1371 Views
No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM
1542 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM
1507 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
- 25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM
1312 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken
- 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM
1630 Views
Talmanes
- 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
1902 Views
I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series.
- 25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM
1438 Views
Re: Talmanes
- 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM
1311 Views
I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes!
- 02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM
1491 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised
- 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM
1729 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
- 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM
1528 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
- 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
1521 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
- 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM
1486 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
- 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM
1642 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM
1797 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM
1768 Views
I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
- 23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM
1431 Views
Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
- 23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM
1450 Views
EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron)
- 23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM
1545 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
- 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM
1885 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table?
- 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM
1503 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game?
- 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM
1585 Views
Interesting...
- 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM
1378 Views
Re: Interesting...
- 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
1638 Views
I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely
- 23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM
1382 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the
- 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM
1412 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL...
- 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM
1496 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers
- 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM
1685 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally..
- 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM
1339 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach
- 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM
1302 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size...
- 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM
1411 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case
- 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM
1401 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this...
- 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM
1420 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways
- 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM
1383 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World?
- 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM
1500 Views
The changes in Moghedien
- 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM
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I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something?
- 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM
1417 Views
Well..
- 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM
1319 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me...
- 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM
1603 Views
Hmmm....
- 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM
1349 Views
Hehe, that old argument again.
- 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM
1270 Views
Yes.
- 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
1263 Views
- 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
1263 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM
1421 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM
1292 Views
Well...
- 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM
1259 Views
Re: Well...
- 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
1400 Views
Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems
- 26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM
1497 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM
1336 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
- 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM
1337 Views
As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series
- 26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM
1443 Views
Actually......
- 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM
1420 Views
Not sure that's completely true..
- 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM
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Re: Not sure that's completely true..
- 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM
1438 Views
Probably something like this
- 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM
1368 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
- 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM
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Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
- 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM
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Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve
- 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM
1453 Views
One thing about that...
- 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM
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Possible, but I find it unlikely
- 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM
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The reason I think that...
- 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM
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I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in
- 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM
1372 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
- 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM
1306 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
- 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM
1429 Views
