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Re: Well... Sidious Send a noteboard - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
And Nynaeve is obviously right there with any of them. Lanfear is obviously abnormal in her raw strength, but that does automatically mean that every time a female senses another's strength they must compare to Lanfears level. Graendal notes Cyndane is stronger than she is, and comments on how rare that is, but she doesn't worry about it all that much which tells us Cyndane is not that much more powerful, and her assumed lack of skill (from Graendal's POV assuming Cyndane is a modern day Channeler). Per Sanderson Nynaeve is similar to Semirhage, who Graendal thinks was more dangerous than Demandred. That alone tells me Nynaeve's Stength would make any of the Forsaken consider her a potential threat just as Moghedien did.


I think the difference in power between all the Forsaken (except Moghedien) is less than 10%. Moghedien is probably significantly weaker. But I think any Forsakn could challenge another openly and the outcome would be unpredictable. That is why Graendal/Sammael is difficult for Moridin to predict.


We are expressly told that Moghedien stood no chance against Lanfear.

We are expressly told that Cyndane has enough of a strength advantage over Graendal that she immediately notices it. This when Aes Sedai often can't tell who is the stronger channeler if two channelers are very close in strength, other than both channeling as much as they can to measure the difference.

We are also told by Graendal that Cyndane is "MUCH" stronger than Moghedien: "Where did the Spider find someone so MUCH stronger than her?"

We are also told that Lanfear is sufficiently stronger than Cyndane that the other Forsaken can clearly sense this difference at first glance.

To me, the important thing to remember is that unless you can effortlessly shield another channeler, any encounter will be dangerous, even if you are significantly stronger. Because weak balefire will kill as easily as strong balefire. And someone who is very fast and skilled with Compulsion can probably strike you much more quickly than your more powerful lightning bolt can, even if you exceed their strength significantly.

We have formed a good idea that you probably need to be between 50% and 70% stronger than someone to shield them relatively effortlessly if they are already holding the source. No one claims that Lanfear exceeds Moghedien by that margin.

But a situation of Moghedien at 65 and Lanfear at 95-99 is very possible, especially as we are told Moghedien had no hope of ever matching Lanfear in battle.

Moghedien is an extreme outlier, but given the 50% strength advantage rule for shielding other channelers if they're holding the source, a battle between Lanfear at 95 and Graendal at 85 would be very dangerous, especially if Graendal can strike faster with her speciality Compulsion weave than Lanfear can with her 15% more powerful general weaves.






But I excluded Moghedien. Its obvious that she is Forsaken because of her excellent skill at undermining stronger channelers. She's a fantastic backstabber, but probably quite a lot weaker than the next strongest Forsaken.

I think even if Cyndane is 2% stronger than Graendal she will easily sense it. Rand said Logain and Taim are close to him in power but he can accurately gauge how much saidin they are holding. Women are probably even more sensitive. Women who can't distinguish probably have similar/same strength in the Power.

When Moghedien and Cyndane surprised Graendal she was willing to fight them both. Its not like she panicked at being outclassed and Travelled. The high level channelers probably have a huge margin or combative ability, which explains why Cyndane can fight at highly amplified Alivia.

Interestingly, we can probably hypothesize about Lanfear's strength. Moiraine lost about two thirds of her strength to the Finns, making her one of the weakest women in the Tower. Lanfear was captured at the same time and also feasted upon, but for a lesser time. We can therefore say that the gap between Cyndane and Lanfear is less than two thirds of Moiraine's strength. Which is obvious, because there's no way Lanfear was ever so much stronger than Graendal. More importantly, it suggests that Lanfear was killed by Moridin relatively early and that she lost less of her ability than Moiraine. Just a small unprovable point,
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3081 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1329 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1284 Views
I thought of Logain as well... - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1158 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1244 Views
It was spelled out before. - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1105 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 646 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1083 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1034 Views
I know... - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1076 Views
I'm not so sure - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1054 Views
Why question it? - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 957 Views
Re: Why question it? - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 911 Views
Six Chosen... - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1258 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1223 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1132 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 651 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1021 Views
Talmanes - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1432 Views
Re: Talmanes - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 880 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1291 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1021 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1026 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 965 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1208 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1211 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1035 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1222 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1277 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1456 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 942 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 991 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1037 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1162 Views
Interesting... - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting... - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1184 Views
Just one comment.. - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1655 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 980 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1079 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1218 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 883 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 852 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 961 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 951 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 928 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 954 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 958 Views
Not really - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1015 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1044 Views
I can certainly something like this happening - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 848 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 987 Views
I think ... - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 969 Views
The changes in Moghedien - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 840 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 992 Views
Well.. - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 859 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1167 Views
Hmmm.... - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 913 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 808 Views
Yes. - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 806 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 896 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 858 Views
Well... - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 824 Views
Re: Well... - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 955 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 883 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 836 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 826 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 901 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 867 Views
Actually...... - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 962 Views
Agree with this.. - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 777 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 838 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 978 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 712 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 856 Views
Probably something like this - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 859 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 830 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 777 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1022 Views
One thing about that... - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 924 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 819 Views
The reason I think that... - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 859 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 931 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1001 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 900 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 970 Views
That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 926 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 950 Views

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