And Nynaeve is obviously right there with any of them. Lanfear is obviously abnormal in her raw strength, but that does automatically mean that every time a female senses another's strength they must compare to Lanfears level. Graendal notes Cyndane is stronger than she is, and comments on how rare that is, but she doesn't worry about it all that much which tells us Cyndane is not that much more powerful, and her assumed lack of skill (from Graendal's POV assuming Cyndane is a modern day Channeler). Per Sanderson Nynaeve is similar to Semirhage, who Graendal thinks was more dangerous than Demandred. That alone tells me Nynaeve's Stength would make any of the Forsaken consider her a potential threat just as Moghedien did.
I think the difference in power between all the Forsaken (except Moghedien) is less than 10%. Moghedien is probably significantly weaker. But I think any Forsakn could challenge another openly and the outcome would be unpredictable. That is why Graendal/Sammael is difficult for Moridin to predict.
We are expressly told that Moghedien stood no chance against Lanfear.
We are expressly told that Cyndane has enough of a strength advantage over Graendal that she immediately notices it. This when Aes Sedai often can't tell who is the stronger channeler if two channelers are very close in strength, other than both channeling as much as they can to measure the difference.
We are also told by Graendal that Cyndane is "MUCH" stronger than Moghedien: "Where did the Spider find someone so MUCH stronger than her?"
We are also told that Lanfear is sufficiently stronger than Cyndane that the other Forsaken can clearly sense this difference at first glance.
To me, the important thing to remember is that unless you can effortlessly shield another channeler, any encounter will be dangerous, even if you are significantly stronger. Because weak balefire will kill as easily as strong balefire. And someone who is very fast and skilled with Compulsion can probably strike you much more quickly than your more powerful lightning bolt can, even if you exceed their strength significantly.
We have formed a good idea that you probably need to be between 50% and 70% stronger than someone to shield them relatively effortlessly if they are already holding the source. No one claims that Lanfear exceeds Moghedien by that margin.
But a situation of Moghedien at 65 and Lanfear at 95-99 is very possible, especially as we are told Moghedien had no hope of ever matching Lanfear in battle.
Moghedien is an extreme outlier, but given the 50% strength advantage rule for shielding other channelers if they're holding the source, a battle between Lanfear at 95 and Graendal at 85 would be very dangerous, especially if Graendal can strike faster with her speciality Compulsion weave than Lanfear can with her 15% more powerful general weaves.
But I excluded Moghedien. Its obvious that she is Forsaken because of her excellent skill at undermining stronger channelers. She's a fantastic backstabber, but probably quite a lot weaker than the next strongest Forsaken.
I think even if Cyndane is 2% stronger than Graendal she will easily sense it. Rand said Logain and Taim are close to him in power but he can accurately gauge how much saidin they are holding. Women are probably even more sensitive. Women who can't distinguish probably have similar/same strength in the Power.
When Moghedien and Cyndane surprised Graendal she was willing to fight them both. Its not like she panicked at being outclassed and Travelled. The high level channelers probably have a huge margin or combative ability, which explains why Cyndane can fight at highly amplified Alivia.
Interestingly, we can probably hypothesize about Lanfear's strength. Moiraine lost about two thirds of her strength to the Finns, making her one of the weakest women in the Tower. Lanfear was captured at the same time and also feasted upon, but for a lesser time. We can therefore say that the gap between Cyndane and Lanfear is less than two thirds of Moiraine's strength. Which is obvious, because there's no way Lanfear was ever so much stronger than Graendal. More importantly, it suggests that Lanfear was killed by Moridin relatively early and that she lost less of her ability than Moiraine. Just a small unprovable point,
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers*
19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM
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You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before.
19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM
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Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right...
20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM
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We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power.
20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM
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It was spelled out before.
20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM
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And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM*
20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM
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Nor a lot of support for the idea...
22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM
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Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events
23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM
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I know...
23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM
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I'm not so sure
24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM
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Why question it?
25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM
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Re: Why question it?
25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM
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No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM
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Demandred - the wasted Forsaken
20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM
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Talmanes
23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
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I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series.
25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM
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Re: Talmanes
02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM
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I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes!
02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM
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Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised
22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM
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Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM
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Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
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I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM
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Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM
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I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM
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I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM
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Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM
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EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron)
23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM
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So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table?
23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM
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Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game?
23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM
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Interesting...
23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM
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Re: Interesting...
23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
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I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely
23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM
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If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the
23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM
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I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL...
23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM
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As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers
23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM
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All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally..
23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM
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It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach
23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM
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The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size...
23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM
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That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case
23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM
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Direct quote from Demandred refutes this...
23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM
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Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways
23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM
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"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World?
23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM
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The changes in Moghedien
25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM
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I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something?
25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM
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Well..
25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM
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Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me...
25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM
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Hmmm....
26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM
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Hehe, that old argument again.
26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM
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Yes.
26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
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I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM
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Well...
26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM
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Re: Well...
26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
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Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems
26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM
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As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series
26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM
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Actually......
26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM
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Not sure that's completely true..
26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM
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Probably something like this
26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM
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Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM
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Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM
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Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve
26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM
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One thing about that...
27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM
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Possible, but I find it unlikely
27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM
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The reason I think that...
27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM
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I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in
27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM
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I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM
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Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM
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