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As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM

Thanks for providing Moghedien's actual comment on Hessalem's strength.

The way it reads, based on your quote, seems to imply to me that Graendal is saying that she is suprised that someone of Graendal's strength was not picked up by her agents, given that they picked up Nynaeve so quickly.

Meaning that if Nynaeve was discovered, then someone even stronger than Nynaeve should have been discovered even sooner.

Not how it reads. This is the quote:

Granted, Moghedien thought, sitting, she is powerful. How had Moghedien missed noticing one with this talent among the Aes Sedai? Her sources had picked out that wretched lightskirt Nynaeve almost immediately, yet they'd missed this hag?


The implication is that Moghedien really doesn't see much difference between those two.

Anyway, that's how it reads to me. But I don't have the exact quote and context in front of me, so I guess it can be interpreted to suit whichever viewpoint one holds on their comparative strengths, other than one which holds Nynaeve to be stronger than Graendal, which we know is not the case anyway.

Any more on Moghedien's reference to Taim's strength? Howcome she knows how strong he is? She can't sense male strength. So who would have told her he is fairly strong?

Here's the quote:
Taim... M'Hael... was said to be strong, perhaps as strong as the rest of them, but elevating one from this Age, with all of their ignorance.... It galled her to consider that this M'Hael would be regarded as her equal.

Also, she doesn't seem to think that he is as strong as the stronger male Forsaken. Merely that he might be as strong as "them", which includes herself, the weakest of the Forsaken by some margin.

What she says makes sense, because as we've argued before, the strength differential isn't that great between the Foresaken. Moghedien at 75-80 is not hapless before someone like Rand.


I beg to differ, as always.

Moghedien has no chance against Rand or Lanfear, at her level of 65.

Which was matched by Nynaeve in Book 4 already. Given that Nynaeve is still not at full strength in Book 9, that tells me all I need to know about Moghedien's strength level.

In fact, there's even a reference to Moghedien standing no chance against Lanfear in this new Forsaken chapter, I believe, talking about the odds now being evened with Moghedien's mindtrap or something, if I understand correctly.


EDIT

Also, the full quote on Hessalam's strength is perfectly consistent with Hessalam being even stronger than Nynaeve. Nynaeve is the strongest modern Aes Sedai previously identified by Moghedien's spies.

If someone stronger comes along, of course she is going to register surprise at the fact that Nynaeve was discovered, but not this new, even stronger person.

Exactly as she did in the quote above.


Just because it took 15 years in our time to get from then to now doesn't mean anything. Nynaeve matched Moghedien in TSR, end of June 999. We are currently right about the beginning of June 1000 ... Nynaeve had been Channeling for several years prior to the series and then spent over a year being Forced before she faced Moghedien. He could have been 90%+ of her Potential and still have room to grow. And there is no evidence that Moghedien is as weak as you continue to claim. All evidence in the series is to the contrary ... Including her new confidence in stating she was on equal footing with Hessalam.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* Sidious - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3084 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. Narg - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1335 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... Cannoli - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1287 Views
I thought of Logain as well... Narg - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1162 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. Nargs - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1246 Views
It was spelled out before. Terez - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1109 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* Cannoli - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 649 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... DomA - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1086 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1038 Views
I know... DomA - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1079 Views
I'm not so sure Sidious - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1058 Views
Why question it? darius_sedai - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 960 Views
Re: Why question it? Sidious - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 915 Views
No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks darius_sedai - 25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM 1156 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks Sidious - 25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM 1087 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks DomA - 25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM 1066 Views
Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks Sidious - 25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM 875 Views
Six Chosen... entyti - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1262 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction The Wandering Gambler - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1231 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken Tom - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1137 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* Marshall - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 651 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken DomA - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1025 Views
Talmanes DomA - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1436 Views
I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series. Tom - 25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM 1025 Views
Re: Talmanes echooff - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 884 Views
I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes! Shannow - 02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM 1063 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised DomA - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1294 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1024 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand DomA - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1032 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 969 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring DomA - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1211 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1215 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? Marshall - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1036 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1226 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam DomA - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1281 Views
I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM 991 Views
Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM DomA - 23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM 996 Views
EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron) darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM 1112 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam Sidious - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1460 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! darius_sedai - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 946 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! Sidious - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 996 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? Shannow - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1039 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? DomA - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1166 Views
Interesting... Shannow - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 990 Views
Re: Interesting... DomA - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1188 Views
I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM 945 Views
Just one comment.. Shannow - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1660 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 985 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... Shannow - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1082 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1221 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. Shannow - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 887 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 857 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... Shannow - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 965 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 955 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... Shannow - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 930 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 959 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways Shannow - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 964 Views
Not really darius_sedai - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1018 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? Shannow - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1050 Views
I can certainly something like this happening darius_sedai - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 853 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... DomA - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 991 Views
I think ... Sidious - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 974 Views
The changes in Moghedien darius_sedai - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 848 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? Shannow - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 995 Views
Well.. fionwe1987 - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 862 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... Shannow - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1171 Views
Hmmm.... fionwe1987 - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 916 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. Shannow - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 811 Views
Yes. fionwe1987 - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 810 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 899 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength Sidious - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 861 Views
Well... Shannow - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 826 Views
Re: Well... Sidious - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 956 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. Shannow - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 886 Views
Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM 875 Views
Re: Well... fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 841 Views
Re: Well... Shannow - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 833 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 905 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength Sidious - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 870 Views
As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM 895 Views
Actually...... DomA - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 965 Views
Agree with this.. Shannow - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 781 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. fionwe1987 - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 842 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. DomA - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 982 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 715 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 861 Views
Probably something like this Sidious - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 864 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... Shannow - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 834 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... Sidious - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 782 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1028 Views
One thing about that... fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 927 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely darius_sedai - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 823 Views
The reason I think that... fionwe1987 - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 863 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in darius_sedai - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 936 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. Shannow - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1005 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 902 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice kHz1000 - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 974 Views
That is the question I was getting at darius_sedai - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 932 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at kHz1000 - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 955 Views
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