but whenever people were arguing for that theory, we got a lot of replies that it made no sense for the DO to kill Lanfear unless there was no way to retrieve her alive and thus she died in Sindhol because Moridin had to kill her or the Finns did, and it had nothing to do with any idea of punishment.
Mind you, this in part had to do with the fact I was arguing that I was sure killing Lanfear was part of her punishment, and I wasn't so sure though it had happened in Finnland (I was arguing it was also possible it had been done at SG after her rescue, to punish her).
The confirmation by Moghedien that the killing of Lanfear was meant to punish her, thus that there was other ways to retrieve her but Moridin/the DO chose that one to punish her, means my reasoning wasn't crazy at all after all: stripping Lanfear of everything that made her Lanfear was absolutely intentional. She's the only transmigrated Forsaken whose former identity is completely taboo. It's part of her punishment that Lanfear is 100% gone. The others must use their new names and all, but they make no secret of who they were, and of the fact everyone knows. For Cyndane, it's "don't ask, don't tell". Cyndane herself has likely been warned she'll be punished for giving the others any signs of who she were.
Mind you, this in part had to do with the fact I was arguing that I was sure killing Lanfear was part of her punishment, and I wasn't so sure though it had happened in Finnland (I was arguing it was also possible it had been done at SG after her rescue, to punish her).
The confirmation by Moghedien that the killing of Lanfear was meant to punish her, thus that there was other ways to retrieve her but Moridin/the DO chose that one to punish her, means my reasoning wasn't crazy at all after all: stripping Lanfear of everything that made her Lanfear was absolutely intentional. She's the only transmigrated Forsaken whose former identity is completely taboo. It's part of her punishment that Lanfear is 100% gone. The others must use their new names and all, but they make no secret of who they were, and of the fact everyone knows. For Cyndane, it's "don't ask, don't tell". Cyndane herself has likely been warned she'll be punished for giving the others any signs of who she were.
I think Moghedien might have communicated the series of events incorrectly. She did, after all, rely on Moridin to tell her what had happened to Lanfear.
We know that Moridin came to look at Moiraine and said that it was not her. He then went to Lanfear, who was being drained by the Finns in a similar way. I think that adequately explains the loss of her strength, though it remains curious as to why this loss follows through after death.
Moridin was probably unwilling to bargain for Lanfear, knowing how treacherous the Finns are. He probably killed her as soon as he saw her and then fought off the Finns before leaving himself. That was probably his plan from the beginning.
I don't think his plan was much deeper than that really. Moridin doesn't strike me as a man who would go through too much effort to save a Chosen if the Dark One can snatch them after death and place them in a healthy body.
I fully realize the symbolism of destroying the Lanfear persona, and it follows through with Graendal. Moghedien thinks that the DO made Graendal ugly for the same reason, but its equally likely Shadar Haran tortured her to death and they put her in the next available body. I'm not sure if the symbolism of destroying their images is more probable than the theme of immortality and how the DO has permanent access to their souls that extends beyond death.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers*
19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM
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You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before.
19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM
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Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right...
20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM
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We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power.
20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM
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It was spelled out before.
20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM
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And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM*
20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM
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Nor a lot of support for the idea...
22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM
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Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events
23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM
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I know...
23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM
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I'm not so sure
24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM
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Why question it?
25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM
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Re: Why question it?
25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM
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No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM
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Demandred - the wasted Forsaken
20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM
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Talmanes
23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
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I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series.
25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM
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Re: Talmanes
02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM
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I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes!
02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM
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Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised
22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM
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Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM
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Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
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I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM
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Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM
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I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM
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I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM
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Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM
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EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron)
23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM
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So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table?
23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM
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Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game?
23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM
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Interesting...
23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM
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Re: Interesting...
23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
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I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely
23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM
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If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the
23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM
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I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL...
23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM
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As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers
23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM
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All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally..
23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM
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It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach
23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM
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The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size...
23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM
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That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case
23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM
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Direct quote from Demandred refutes this...
23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM
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Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways
23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM
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"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World?
23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM
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The changes in Moghedien
25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM
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I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something?
25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM
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Well..
25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM
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Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me...
25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM
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Hmmm....
26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM
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Hehe, that old argument again.
26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM
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Yes.
26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
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I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM
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Well...
26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM
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Re: Well...
26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
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Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems
26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM
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As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series
26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM
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Actually......
26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM
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Not sure that's completely true..
26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM
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Probably something like this
26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM
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Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM
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Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM
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Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve
26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM
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One thing about that...
27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM
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Possible, but I find it unlikely
27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM
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The reason I think that...
27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM
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I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in
27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM
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I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM
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Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM
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