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Re: Interesting... DomA Send a noteboard - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
Well.. honestly I think it's pretty clear Demandred is under Moridin the mastermind of the War. His role will be very prominent (he'll be the main foe of Mat, notably), and I believe Brandon thinks the reveal of Demandred's plans will be huge because most people still don't adhere to theories that Demandred isn't infiltrated anywhere and still insist on looking for him among the whole list of secondary characters.

The big mystery left is what sort of armies he will bring in. I expect it will be impressive, mostly because his armies will be run on far more modern principles than anything else in the series. They may not be that huge, but they'll wipe the floor in terms of tactics, logistics and global organization. Demandred knows what modern armies need, he'll have devised all sort of tricks to get around the absence of ter'angreal (eg: his officers will be trained in weaves to communicate from afar and stuff like that), they'll have well stocked hidden food reserves reachable by Gateways, healers and so on. No doubt Demandred will also have protocols for every situations in place... his armies won't be chaotic.

There isn't a whole lot of new stuff about Demandred in the prologue, except Moridin specifically mentions for the first time his role in the war, by telling Moghedien Demandred has plans for the war and needs her for an army that now needs monitoring (thus my speculation that Moghedien is needed by Demandred to take over from Mesaana.. though it's also possible Moridin is imposing Moghedien on Demandred).

We learn Moridin is summoning Demandred every other day, and Demandred isn't pleased to be taken away from his preparations.

We learn from Moridin (and safely out of Demandred's earshot!) and in the context of reminding Moghedien of her failures and that she's still not completely forgiven and only in probation (she's got her mindtrap back) that the Dark One is pleased, very pleased with Demandred's doings. In Demandred's presence Moridin is not exactly flattering... calling his armies his "playthings", barking at him that unless Demandred has been named Nae'blis in his back he must shut up and obey, the usual show of authority.

Demandred is dead silent when Moridin introduces Taim as a New Chosen. He has no reaction at all, but shortly after when Moridin boasts of Taim's achievements and reminds the others they don't have much to match this, Demandred explodes and yells at Moridin he will see the results of his plans by bushels and droves but he's better remember what's his price for that, which is that he will be the one to face and kill Rand. He then gives a challenging look to each Chosen including Taim. It really sounds as if Moridin has bought Demandred's loyalty seen in the last books by the formal promise he'd be the one killing Rand.

I very much doubt Demandred still plans to go after Moridin or replace him as Nae'blis (he probably postponed that to after the War, Demandred is I think perhaps the most naive of the lot when it comes to Shai'tan's true intentions). He's got what he wants. Brandon pointed out earlier Demandred isn't nearly as interested in Moridin's place as he is in Rand. At this point being Nae'blis would almost be detrimental to Demandred, it's fairly clear what he's completely eager to do is to lead the War (which, by the way, Moghedien has coined as "(a new) War of Shadow". He couldn't do that and take over from Moridin who seems to have tons and tons of initiatives of his own. It's too much for one man, and it's too late to reorganize everything - there's just not enough Chosen to rule over either. I'm sure Demandred's intelligent enough to have figured out that on his own, without even his two allies to delegate tasks if he were Nae'blis, he would be shooting himself in the foot if he took out Moridin.

Moghedien wonders what has changed lately in Demandred for him to want to kill Rand himself, apparently Demandred had never cared about that before, only that LTT/Rand died. I think it's pretty obvious what has angered Demandred is the loss right on the eve of the War of Semirhage at Rand's hands, and Mesaana at the hands of Rand's friends, which must have suddenly made this very personal for Demandred. Mesaana is probably the worst loss of the two, as Demandred was probably counting on her in his plans to defeat Tar Valon down the line, and plans probably had been updated already following Semirhage's demise; His plans probably took into account the presence of Mesaana and an army of several hundred BA inside ready to betray the Tower. I suspect the loss of the Seanchan isn't nearly as bad, as they clearly still intend to fight the Westlands whether Semirhage is there or not to push and pull Tuon. That will change if and when an alliance between the two sides is made...

When you think about it, Demandred really had it served on a silver platter: the BT was taken care of, the WT was split and Mesaana had several hundreds BA still inside, the Seanchan were to keep the Westlands busy from behind... At the beginning of TGS, this looked like it would be a war against a bunch of mundane if strong armies, with the BT nearby the biggest, the armies of the Borderlands stuck at Far Madding, Rand's armies scattered all over the place... so he basically had his inner circle with Logain's Asha'man and Cadsuane's troops, the Wise Ones and the Aiel, and probably the Windfinders.

Now it's more of a challenge... Mat has gone to Tuon, Perrin's group's not nearly as weak as before and he's ta'veren, Rand is super Rand, and the odds are great Rand will have a few thousand female channelers behind him... WO, Windfinders, Aes Sedai, their novices and accepted etc. And for the moment, all of these will be gathered at Merrilor for a time.

Rather than a contest between Moridin and Demandred (though it's clear Demandred isn't trusting Moridin won't betray him) what Moghedien foreshadowed is that Demandred has better watch his back with Taim. She's probably right about that. The bigger threat to Moridin and his plans (and to Demandred's hopes to face Rand, for that matter), IMHO, is Cyndane. That one's ruled by her passions and grudges and she has little of Demandred's pragmatism.

IMO, Cyndane is now trying to kill Rand in order to kill Moridin at the same time.

One last note on Demandred: I don't expect him to be "infiltrated" because it would suppose he will bring armies to the war on a false pretext. Sure, he apparently loves doing that apparently and it's quite possible he's got leverage to start a few proxy wars as distractions (eg: bringing a Sharan army to attack the Westlands etc.) but if that were his forces that's way too risky: these armies wouldn't serve the Shadow, and they can switch side. I'm sure he's got armies of dedicated Shadow followers, and that he will have control of most of the Shadowspawn armies available (and his people will be trained to fight with those, and lead them).

I'm pretty sure we've already seen some of Demandred's people at work in TOM (they were the ones operating the Portal Stones, IMO).
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3081 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1330 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1285 Views
I thought of Logain as well... - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1159 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1244 Views
It was spelled out before. - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1106 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 647 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1084 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1035 Views
I know... - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1076 Views
I'm not so sure - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1055 Views
Why question it? - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 957 Views
Re: Why question it? - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 911 Views
Six Chosen... - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1258 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1223 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1132 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 651 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1022 Views
Talmanes - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1432 Views
Re: Talmanes - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 881 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1292 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1022 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1027 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 966 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1208 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1211 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1036 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1222 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1278 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1457 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 943 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 992 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1037 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1162 Views
Interesting... - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 984 Views
Re: Interesting... - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1185 Views
Just one comment.. - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1655 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 980 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1080 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1218 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 883 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 852 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 961 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 952 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 928 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 955 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 959 Views
Not really - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1016 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1045 Views
I can certainly something like this happening - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 849 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 988 Views
I think ... - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 970 Views
The changes in Moghedien - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 841 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 992 Views
Well.. - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 860 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1168 Views
Hmmm.... - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 914 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 809 Views
Yes. - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 807 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 896 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 859 Views
Well... - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 824 Views
Re: Well... - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 955 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 883 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 837 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 827 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 902 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 868 Views
Actually...... - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 962 Views
Agree with this.. - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 778 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 838 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 979 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 713 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 856 Views
Probably something like this - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 859 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 831 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 778 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1023 Views
One thing about that... - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 925 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 820 Views
The reason I think that... - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 859 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 932 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1002 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 900 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 971 Views
That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 927 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 951 Views

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