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Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand DomA Send a noteboard - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
Moridin comments on it:

Too many of our number threw themselves into contests with al’Thor when he was presumed to be weak. M’Hael instead earned Lews Therin’s trust, then took charge of the training of his weapons.

The way this is worded leads me to believe Taim either took initiative on his own, or that Moridin was behind this move. Given his promotion to Chosen I tend to think Taim seized the opportunity in front of him. He could have met Demandred at anytime ... Seems most likely to have happened post-Cleansing since Demandred seems to have very little knowledge of the Asha'man at that point.


It's possible it's Taim idea all along, but from events in LOC it seems unlikely Demandred didn't have a big hand in it.

Taim expected to be taken as Rand's second at his side, in fact as his equal at his side. He was very clearly pissed off to be sent to the Farm and to have to train men there. At the next meeting his attitude had completely changed - he brought up the notion of recruiting, which was a major factor in the success of the "Shadow army hidden in plain sight" idea. Then Taim got his SG rock for his speeches, and it stretches credibility that overnight just like that he became a specialist of military organization. Ranking system, the layout of the grounds, the discipline, the indoctrinement, the training. That's a whole lot for an amateur. The whole thing reeks of Demandred's involvement at the early stages. It's pretty clear he advised Taim, though I'm sure he didn't take too direct an hand. Another thing to consider is who made Taim so paranoid about Rand's safety... which lead to Dumai's Wells. The book ends with Demandred being extremely pleased with himself too...

None of this undermines Taim's achievements. Demandred wasn't holding his hand. He really did all the field work, convinced Rand to trust him, convinced Rand to allow him to recruit and so on.

The comment about Demandred vs. Flinn is overstated. It merely means Demandred was not familiar with the Asha'man, it doesn't mean he wasn't advising Taim in the building of the BT.

Even before the Cleansing Demandred knew about DF Asha'man and was giving them orders, and warning them not to repeat their previous book's blunders. He was also acting in Taim's back at that point, and Moridin was Nae'blis, had sent Osan'gar to the BT and all. That's why I think Demandred set up the BT, one of a series of ventures to build himself forces to use in TG IMHO and not one of those he's most involved in I suspect as Taim was there for that, but he realized early Taim had divided loyalties. It may have to do with knowing all along that Taim is a DF who has been set up as False Dragon by Ishamael, that Demandred tried to replace Ishamael as his patron after TDR but Moridin's arrival meant he could no longer trust Taim to be fully his anymore. Mesaana was more or less in the same situation with the BA the rest of the Chosen were using as well (and yes, I think she built herself a group of agents in the Tower she had exclusive control over and that she preferred to rely on rather than Alviarin and the BA exclusively).

It seems obvious Demandred must be super pissed Taim was raised as his equal as Chosen. For sure there's gonna be some power struggles between those two. If my suspicions are correct and Demandred is in a "Taim would have achieved nothing without my help" viperous mood, we'll see some of Demandred's displeasure in some of his POV. He's just way too clever to show any of this in front of Moridin. I guess odds are we'll learn quite a bit more about how the BT came about.
This message last edited by DomA on 23/09/2012 at 06:07:07 PM
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3081 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1330 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1285 Views
I thought of Logain as well... - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1159 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1244 Views
It was spelled out before. - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1105 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 646 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1083 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1034 Views
I know... - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1076 Views
I'm not so sure - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1054 Views
Why question it? - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 957 Views
Re: Why question it? - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 911 Views
Six Chosen... - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1258 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1223 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1132 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 651 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1022 Views
Talmanes - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1432 Views
Re: Talmanes - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 880 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1291 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1021 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1027 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 965 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1208 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1211 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1035 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1222 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1277 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1456 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 942 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 991 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1037 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1162 Views
Interesting... - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting... - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1184 Views
Just one comment.. - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1655 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 980 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1079 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1218 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 883 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 852 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 961 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 952 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 928 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 954 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 958 Views
Not really - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1016 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1045 Views
I can certainly something like this happening - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 848 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 987 Views
I think ... - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 969 Views
The changes in Moghedien - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 840 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 992 Views
Well.. - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 859 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1167 Views
Hmmm.... - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 913 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 809 Views
Yes. - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 807 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 896 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 858 Views
Well... - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 824 Views
Re: Well... - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 955 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 883 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 836 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 826 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 901 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 868 Views
Actually...... - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 962 Views
Agree with this.. - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 777 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 838 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 978 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 712 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 856 Views
Probably something like this - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 859 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 830 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 777 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1022 Views
One thing about that... - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 924 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 819 Views
The reason I think that... - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 859 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 931 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1002 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 900 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 970 Views
That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 926 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 951 Views

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