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Talmanes DomA Send a noteboard - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
the Talmanes portions made me think there might be a bit of entertainment left in what has been drawn out for far, far too long.


I guess there's no accounting for tastes. I found those sections pretty underwhelming. There was no real sense of danger, horror or tension - it was more like going from A to B to C chopping Shadowspawn down along the way, the descriptions were very bland, lacking any sense of epic, and failed to take you sensually in the inferno of those streets. Sanderson also made a bad job of conveying the horror of a city and its people torn apart by Shadowspawn.

The sequence is also plagued a bit by various incongruities, characters hearing this or that clearly, from calls to horns to Shadowspawn on the corner, when what went on in the city was realistically a deafening roar. The cityscape wasn't respected in a few places, for instance the events on the way to and around the palace (Brandon have Talmanes able to judge the situation from way too far. He couldn't possibly do that in the Inner City, all the way up to the Queen's plaza in front of the palace's gates - where Guybon would have been fighting, but it's not how it's described - it's a nightmarish maze of very narrow streets winding up the hill, and that part of the city is all made up of tall ogier-made buildings with towers and spires, Tar Valon style). Fighting against Shadowspawn already entrenched in the Inner City an assaulting the palace would be simply hellish, but Brandon made poor use of that location.

I expected a gruesome episode, a small army making its way in a city where tens of thousands were dying horribly, where fire was everywhere. Instead we got soldiers going ahead steadfastly, fighting a bit along the way, getting wounds, and we barely got to see the survivors or fallen Caemlyners through Talmanes's eyes - old folk, women and children among them - more often than not it was restricted to telling us blandly thousands were packed here or there. As I could see on various discussions, Brandon didn't do his job too well either at helping us picture things.. people are very confused about how much of the Band Talmanes brought (he sure didn't seem to have 10,000, which is what Elayne left behind - and yet according to vague descriptions that's exactly what he had "The Band", aka his whole half of it, ie: 10,000 men, but later on he has 500 men with him and the rest at the southern Gate) or how huge the Shadowspawn invasion really was (the usual Brandon "vagueness";).

Even accounting for the fact Talmanes isn't really emotional and this was his POV, you would really have to be cold as ice for a commander and his soldiers not to react more viscerally at a human level to the sheer horror of the situation. Instead people seem to have time and thought for petty matters like grimacing when a lord refer to citizens as "peasants".

The whole sequence pretty much failed to elicit any strong emotion, and considering this depicted the destruction of one of the earliest and consistantly most important location and culture of the series, I'd call that pretty much a failure on Brandon's part.

Jordan also had his flaws, but with this sequence we're far behind in thrills from what we got from RJ with Dumai's Wells or even the Battle of Malden, which for all its abruptness and its focuss on Perrin only conveyed a very good sense of the chaos of battle.

There's probably more to come (opinions are very divided if the last portion was Talmanes' death or not. I had the impression it wasn't, that he would wake up among his rescuers in a future chapter), though it won't be Mat (who we know appears for the first time in the book in chapter 11, already in Ebou Dar).

For the moment there's a lot of unanswered questions, for instance where are the fairly big Aes Sedai group from the Silver Swan, and where are the even larger group of Tower envoys with Myrelle that camp outside the Black Tower with 47 sisters, a ton of warders and a contingent of Tower Guards (and they are merely four leagues south of the city, and we know the dreamspike do not extend beyond the walls as Nynaeve travelled in and out of that camp to get Lan's bond) and that couldn't possibly miss the city burning in the night! Of course with Brandon at the helm we can never be sure what happens when, though there seems to be a consensus that events at the Black Tower are taking place a substantial amount of time prior to the attack on Caemlyn while the Egeanin scenes, the Talmanes scenes and the Aviendha scenes were all taking place on the same night (meaning we have no idea if Myrelle and co are still camped outside when the battle rages in Caemlyn. Probably not, as it would be baffling they didn't Travel away to raise the alarm by now. Most likely if they are there, Taim has seen to it that they couldn't possibly leave to raise the alarm, one way or another.).

This message last edited by DomA on 23/09/2012 at 12:45:17 AM
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AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers* - 19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM 3081 Views
You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before. - 19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM 1329 Views
Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right... - 20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM 1284 Views
I thought of Logain as well... - 20/09/2012 06:10:58 PM 1158 Views
We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power. - 20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM 1243 Views
It was spelled out before. - 20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM 1105 Views
And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM* - 20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM 646 Views
Nor a lot of support for the idea... - 22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM 1083 Views
Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events - 23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM 1034 Views
I know... - 23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM 1076 Views
I'm not so sure - 24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM 1054 Views
Why question it? - 25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM 957 Views
Re: Why question it? - 25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM 911 Views
Six Chosen... - 20/09/2012 05:19:17 AM 1258 Views
It's fan fiction, but it's cannon fan fiction - 20/09/2012 06:55:18 AM 1223 Views
Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM 1132 Views
RJ's writing was bad. Sanderson's is far worse. *NM* - 21/09/2012 06:19:04 AM 651 Views
Re: Demandred - the wasted Forsaken - 22/09/2012 07:23:19 PM 1021 Views
Talmanes - 23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM 1432 Views
Re: Talmanes - 02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM 880 Views
Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised - 22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM 1291 Views
Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM 1021 Views
Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand - 23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM 1026 Views
I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM 965 Views
Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring - 23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM 1208 Views
The first time we hear about Transmigration is in LOC - 23/09/2012 08:50:10 PM 1211 Views
Why was Ishamael reinstantiated as Nae'blis after his death? - 02/10/2012 10:17:03 PM 1035 Views
I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM 1222 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM 1277 Views
Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam - 24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM 1456 Views
I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 03:22:56 AM 942 Views
Re: I don't think she's old. Just really really really ugly! - 25/09/2012 06:13:51 AM 991 Views
So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table? - 23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM 1037 Views
Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? - 23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM 1161 Views
Interesting... - 23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM 983 Views
Re: Interesting... - 23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM 1184 Views
Just one comment.. - 23/09/2012 11:53:09 PM 1655 Views
If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the - 23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM 980 Views
I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL... - 23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM 1079 Views
As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers - 23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM 1218 Views
All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally.. - 23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM 883 Views
It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach - 23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM 851 Views
The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size... - 23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM 961 Views
That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case - 23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM 951 Views
Direct quote from Demandred refutes this... - 23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM 928 Views
Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM 954 Views
Re: Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways - 23/09/2012 11:36:54 PM 958 Views
Not really - 24/09/2012 12:31:48 AM 1015 Views
"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World? - 23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM 1044 Views
I can certainly something like this happening - 23/09/2012 10:50:35 PM 848 Views
I'm not sure it's possible... - 24/09/2012 03:02:26 AM 987 Views
I think ... - 24/09/2012 05:36:38 PM 969 Views
The changes in Moghedien - 25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM 840 Views
I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something? - 25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM 992 Views
Well.. - 25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM 859 Views
Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me... - 25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM 1167 Views
Hmmm.... - 26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM 913 Views
Hehe, that old argument again. - 26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM 808 Views
Yes. - 26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM 806 Views
I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM 896 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM 858 Views
Well... - 26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM 824 Views
Re: Well... - 26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM 954 Views
Nice speculation. I like that type of calculation. - 26/09/2012 10:59:43 AM 883 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 03:12:06 AM 836 Views
Re: Well... - 27/09/2012 08:17:07 AM 826 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM 901 Views
Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength - 27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM 867 Views
Actually...... - 26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM 962 Views
Agree with this.. - 26/09/2012 06:12:34 AM 777 Views
Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM 838 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 26/09/2012 03:02:41 PM 978 Views
This is what I've been saying for years! - 26/09/2012 05:48:01 PM 712 Views
Re: Not sure that's completely true.. - 27/09/2012 03:17:00 AM 856 Views
Probably something like this - 26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM 859 Views
Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM 830 Views
Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here... - 26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM 777 Views
Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve - 26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM 1022 Views
One thing about that... - 27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM 924 Views
Possible, but I find it unlikely - 27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM 819 Views
The reason I think that... - 27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM 859 Views
I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in - 27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM 931 Views
Of course that's the correct answer, yes. - 27/09/2012 08:12:45 AM 1001 Views
I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM 900 Views
Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice - 26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM 970 Views
That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 06:00:03 PM 926 Views
Re: That is the question I was getting at - 26/09/2012 07:01:34 PM 950 Views

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