the Talmanes portions made me think there might be a bit of entertainment left in what has been drawn out for far, far too long.
I guess there's no accounting for tastes. I found those sections pretty underwhelming. There was no real sense of danger, horror or tension - it was more like going from A to B to C chopping Shadowspawn down along the way, the descriptions were very bland, lacking any sense of epic, and failed to take you sensually in the inferno of those streets. Sanderson also made a bad job of conveying the horror of a city and its people torn apart by Shadowspawn.
The sequence is also plagued a bit by various incongruities, characters hearing this or that clearly, from calls to horns to Shadowspawn on the corner, when what went on in the city was realistically a deafening roar. The cityscape wasn't respected in a few places, for instance the events on the way to and around the palace (Brandon have Talmanes able to judge the situation from way too far. He couldn't possibly do that in the Inner City, all the way up to the Queen's plaza in front of the palace's gates - where Guybon would have been fighting, but it's not how it's described - it's a nightmarish maze of very narrow streets winding up the hill, and that part of the city is all made up of tall ogier-made buildings with towers and spires, Tar Valon style). Fighting against Shadowspawn already entrenched in the Inner City an assaulting the palace would be simply hellish, but Brandon made poor use of that location.
I expected a gruesome episode, a small army making its way in a city where tens of thousands were dying horribly, where fire was everywhere. Instead we got soldiers going ahead steadfastly, fighting a bit along the way, getting wounds, and we barely got to see the survivors or fallen Caemlyners through Talmanes's eyes - old folk, women and children among them - more often than not it was restricted to telling us blandly thousands were packed here or there. As I could see on various discussions, Brandon didn't do his job too well either at helping us picture things.. people are very confused about how much of the Band Talmanes brought (he sure didn't seem to have 10,000, which is what Elayne left behind - and yet according to vague descriptions that's exactly what he had "The Band", aka his whole half of it, ie: 10,000 men, but later on he has 500 men with him and the rest at the southern Gate) or how huge the Shadowspawn invasion really was (the usual Brandon "vagueness".
Even accounting for the fact Talmanes isn't really emotional and this was his POV, you would really have to be cold as ice for a commander and his soldiers not to react more viscerally at a human level to the sheer horror of the situation. Instead people seem to have time and thought for petty matters like grimacing when a lord refer to citizens as "peasants".
The whole sequence pretty much failed to elicit any strong emotion, and considering this depicted the destruction of one of the earliest and consistantly most important location and culture of the series, I'd call that pretty much a failure on Brandon's part.
Jordan also had his flaws, but with this sequence we're far behind in thrills from what we got from RJ with Dumai's Wells or even the Battle of Malden, which for all its abruptness and its focuss on Perrin only conveyed a very good sense of the chaos of battle.
There's probably more to come (opinions are very divided if the last portion was Talmanes' death or not. I had the impression it wasn't, that he would wake up among his rescuers in a future chapter), though it won't be Mat (who we know appears for the first time in the book in chapter 11, already in Ebou Dar).
For the moment there's a lot of unanswered questions, for instance where are the fairly big Aes Sedai group from the Silver Swan, and where are the even larger group of Tower envoys with Myrelle that camp outside the Black Tower with 47 sisters, a ton of warders and a contingent of Tower Guards (and they are merely four leagues south of the city, and we know the dreamspike do not extend beyond the walls as Nynaeve travelled in and out of that camp to get Lan's bond) and that couldn't possibly miss the city burning in the night! Of course with Brandon at the helm we can never be sure what happens when, though there seems to be a consensus that events at the Black Tower are taking place a substantial amount of time prior to the attack on Caemlyn while the Egeanin scenes, the Talmanes scenes and the Aviendha scenes were all taking place on the same night (meaning we have no idea if Myrelle and co are still camped outside when the battle rages in Caemlyn. Probably not, as it would be baffling they didn't Travel away to raise the alarm by now. Most likely if they are there, Taim has seen to it that they couldn't possibly leave to raise the alarm, one way or another.).
This message last edited by DomA on 23/09/2012 at 12:45:17 AM
AMOL Prologue : Analysis of Forsaken section *major spoilers*
19/09/2012 05:47:21 PM
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You left out that Taim and Demandred have met before.
19/09/2012 06:19:01 PM
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Part of me keeps screaming Logain, though that can't be right...
20/09/2012 12:14:00 PM
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We have our answer as to why Cyndane and Moiraine are reduced in power.
20/09/2012 05:14:01 AM
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It was spelled out before.
20/09/2012 05:25:05 AM
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And some of us guessed that's what happened, we just didn't have evidence. *NM*
20/09/2012 12:04:18 PM
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Nor a lot of support for the idea...
22/09/2012 06:28:14 PM
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Really? Seemed like the obvious series of events
23/09/2012 02:32:35 PM
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I know...
23/09/2012 05:30:42 PM
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I'm not so sure
24/09/2012 05:32:50 PM
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Why question it?
25/09/2012 01:40:39 AM
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Re: Why question it?
25/09/2012 06:12:32 AM
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No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 04:10:04 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 06:41:13 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:21:03 PM
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Re: No she doesn't. She focuses on Graendal's punishment being about her looks
25/09/2012 07:53:47 PM
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Demandred - the wasted Forsaken
20/09/2012 08:14:15 PM
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Talmanes
23/09/2012 12:42:27 AM
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I think you once again overestimate my appreciation of the series.
25/09/2012 02:33:34 PM
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Re: Talmanes
02/10/2012 03:27:05 PM
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I'm disappointed after waiting a week for a new post in the Forsaken thread, it's about Talmanes!
02/10/2012 09:46:48 PM
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Two interesting Forsaken issues you haven't raised
22/09/2012 06:21:34 PM
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Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 02:53:32 AM
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Re: Seems to me that Taim himself was behind going to Rand
23/09/2012 05:50:48 PM
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I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 06:35:19 PM
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Re: I think I rebel against this thought process because of the Taimandred Red Herring
23/09/2012 07:46:59 PM
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I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 01:20:13 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
23/09/2012 06:52:10 PM
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I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 07:17:15 PM
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Re: I agree that B-Sand seems to have inserted Graendal into the Slayer plot line in TOM
23/09/2012 08:19:02 PM
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EDIT ... Demandred has only had about 9 months (according to wotchron)
23/09/2012 09:13:44 PM
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Re: I have to wonder at Hessalam
24/09/2012 05:18:29 PM
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So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game? Shara or Isle of Madmen back on the table?
23/09/2012 08:01:03 PM
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Re: So based on this new info, what is Demandred's big game?
23/09/2012 08:52:48 PM
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Interesting...
23/09/2012 09:06:18 PM
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Re: Interesting...
23/09/2012 11:31:31 PM
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I think we saw them during the attack on Maradon. The Portal Stone attack seems less likely
23/09/2012 11:41:42 PM
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If I had to take a guess right now I'd say he has been setting up various Shadow armies thought the
23/09/2012 09:30:34 PM
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I think at the very least he has recreated the One-and-Eighty male channelers from the AOL...
23/09/2012 09:34:56 PM
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As I said he will almost certainly have Channelers
23/09/2012 09:47:53 PM
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All he needed to do was train 10 guys personally..
23/09/2012 09:51:46 PM
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It took Taim nearly a year to train a dozen men to a place where they could teach
23/09/2012 10:00:40 PM
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The world is 25,000 miles by 25,000 miles in size...
23/09/2012 10:15:22 PM
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That is just far fetched ... I think I would laugh out loud if that is the case
23/09/2012 10:43:37 PM
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Direct quote from Demandred refutes this...
23/09/2012 10:49:10 PM
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Demanded is much more like Mesaana in his ways
23/09/2012 10:55:00 PM
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"My rule is secure." Could Demandred be ruling an entire Mirror World?
23/09/2012 10:43:51 PM
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The changes in Moghedien
25/09/2012 03:29:15 AM
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I believe she commented on Graendal's strength, comparing it to Nynaeve or something?
25/09/2012 11:07:24 PM
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Well..
25/09/2012 11:15:21 PM
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Thanks for the quote, but reading that, it kind of implies the opposite, to me...
25/09/2012 11:35:53 PM
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Hmmm....
26/09/2012 12:00:33 AM
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Hehe, that old argument again.
26/09/2012 12:09:25 AM
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Yes.
26/09/2012 12:58:03 AM
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I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 04:11:16 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
26/09/2012 08:53:02 AM
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Well...
26/09/2012 09:09:38 AM
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Re: Well...
26/09/2012 10:17:03 AM
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Moiraine lost more than 2/3 of her strength. Siuan lost about that and Moiraine seems
26/09/2012 04:46:18 PM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 03:00:04 AM
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Re: I agree the Forsaken are all pretty close in effective Strength
27/09/2012 07:23:11 AM
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As always you forget book 4 is more than half way through the timeline of the series
26/09/2012 03:58:22 AM
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Actually......
26/09/2012 02:30:00 AM
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Not sure that's completely true..
26/09/2012 06:42:51 AM
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Probably something like this
26/09/2012 08:36:40 AM
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Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 08:56:32 AM
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Re: Probably true, but maybe a hint from a Sanderson interview should be considered here...
26/09/2012 10:01:08 AM
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Graendal almost has to be Stronger than Nynaeve
26/09/2012 05:57:35 PM
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One thing about that...
27/09/2012 02:58:56 AM
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Possible, but I find it unlikely
27/09/2012 06:16:56 AM
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The reason I think that...
27/09/2012 06:25:48 AM
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I always assumed Nynaeve at the top was a list he later revised as he decided to bring in
27/09/2012 06:39:35 AM
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I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 03:45:36 AM
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Re: I wasn't making a Strength comparison ... I was commenting on her lack of cowardice
26/09/2012 05:30:36 PM
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