Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
DomA Send a noteboard - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM
It conflicts with logic. It makes no sense that Tigrain would have married into Damodred when a politically far weaker Queen forced Taringail to marry into Trakand.
Neither Tigraine nor Taringail renounced their House when marrying. Once you understand this, things will be clearer.
Renouncing a House to integrate another is something done in Andor under Andoran law. It's not some universal law. It's not done in Saldaea, for instance. It's not done in Carhien either.
Morgase OTOH forced Taringail to marry into House Trakand and to renounce his Cairhienin House (under Andoran law). That didn't make him Trakand by name (it was strictly a matter of choice for him to use the name or not, I would guess. Elayne alluded once she could use the name Damodred the same way if she wished), but he was now an Andoran noble subjected to the High Seat of House Trakand under Andoran law (which clarified his legal position in Andor, and was an attempt to remove his standing within House Damodred in Cairhien. That was meant to but didn't work to stop Laman from using Taringail to plot in Andor. Obviously, Andoran law considered Taringail legally a member of House Trakand subject to Morgase authority as both HS and Queen, while with his marriage to Tigraine he had remained legally a Cairhienin, but this had no legal bearing in Cairhien and with Laman, for whom Taringail was still considered a member of House Damodred). It's never mentionned in the same breath that Morgase forced Taringail to bring his son by Tigraine into House Trakand too, she just formely adopted him, which isn't necessarily the same thing. As there's no real political reason why Morgase would have harshly forced Taringail to agree to the end of his line through Galad - unlike his father he was Andoran by birth already (while there were reasons to marry him into Trakand and have all his offspring from her to be legally born in Trakand), it's fairly unlikely Morgase did that (or that Taringail would have agreed). In any case, officially part of House Trakand by his adoption or not, Galad is allowed by law to keep using his Damodred name. Obviously, those Andorans laws about weddings, belonging to Houses or not, offsprings etc. have no legal bearing whatsoever in Cairhien, as Elayne could get her herself recognized as a valid sion of House Damodred by its High Seat Caraline. No one ever mentionned that the law that excluded Taringail stood in her way, so it sounds like the Law that excluded the consort of a foreign ruler from making a claim has overlooked the specific possibility a foreign ruler of Cairhienin descent coud make a claim too, likely because it was so preposterous no one foresaw a situation in which any Cairhienin House would ever support any such claim by a foreign ruler).
Mordrellen never married Tigraine "into Damodred", she simply didn't require from Taringail he married into House Mantear, and obviously she agreed that his eldest son would retain his Cairhienin name and Cairhienin house, even in Andor. That all most likely had to do with the complex negotiations for this wedding between Mordrellen and Laman (with no doubt the WT behind all this). By this wedding, Andor hoped to put an end to a series of recurrent wars between the two nations. Laman however had far more insidious motives to agree to it and hidden ambitions for Cairhien to grab control of Andor through this wedding. He meant for Taringail to be facto be co-ruler of Andor, and eventually ruler of Andor in his wife's place in all but name (Morgase/Tigraine would have had to change the laws of Andor for Taringail to eventually co-rule or rule officially, which apparently Laman hoped would happen). Elaida and Thom stood in the way of Taringail. They kept Taringail from gaining anywhere close to that kind of influence over Morgase (which in turn blocked Laman's schemes and weakened his prestige in Cairhien enough it became one of the motives why he cut down Avendoraldera to make a new Sun Throne). Taringail got officially appointed First Prince of the Sword, but as far as we know that appointment didn't come with the usual leadership over the Queen's Guard in time of War (it remained with Lord Naldwinn - who was likely Commander under First Prince Bryne in Mordrellen's time, and who died the same week as Laman, and Morgase appointed Mordrellen's former First Prince, Bryne, as Commander of the Guard, under Taringail's nominal/symbolic authority. After Taringail's death, Bryne was appointed again officially First Prince of the Sword, retaining his function as Commander of the Queen's Guard beside).
This message last edited by DomA on 30/05/2012 at 04:36:04 PM
aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!)
21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM
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Thoughts...
21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM
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Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM
- 1033 Views
Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM
- 1235 Views
Re: Thoughts...
21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
- 1133 Views
Mat and the madness...
21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM
- 1077 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad
21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM
- 1100 Views
Not Egwene though...
21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM
- 906 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM
- 902 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness
22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM
- 973 Views
Re: Mat and the madness...
22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM
- 1023 Views
Rand's dreams...
22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM
- 942 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney
22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM
- 1098 Views
Everything Egwene's little pea-brain does not grasp has always been a sign of madness to her.
21/05/2012 11:05:44 PM
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Oh read the books will you?
21/05/2012 11:12:06 PM
- 1068 Views
I'd rather not. For different reasons, it's kind of painful to read those by either author.
22/05/2012 04:46:20 AM
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What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn."
22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM
- 972 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar
22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM
- 1044 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM
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Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand.
23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM
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Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM
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Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
23/05/2012 09:01:10 PM
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It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
23/05/2012 09:22:47 PM
- 952 Views
Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
24/05/2012 07:34:40 AM
- 891 Views
Re: It all depends on whether the actual Crystal Throne is, as many suspect, a ter'angreal.
25/05/2012 01:23:21 AM
- 958 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon.
24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM
- 1039 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM
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Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel...
26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM
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Agreed...
26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM
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I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends
26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM
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Re: Agreed...
27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM
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I think you're both wrong...
27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM
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I'm sure that is part of it, but I very much doubt he is thinking in terms of succession
27/05/2012 01:41:37 PM
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I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM
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Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander
28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM
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That makes no sense
28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM
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Taringail was Laman's heir...
28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM
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You are answering the wrong question
29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM
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No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it.
29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM
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Yet not one of these things actually happened
29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM
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You're being absurd...
30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM
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Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM
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30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM
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Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne?
30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM
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We don't fully know...
30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM
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You just flipped your last statement
30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM
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You seem extremely confused...
30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM
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Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM
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Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have
30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM
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I am not contesting the information we have
30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM
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You're impossible...
30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM
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Re: Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then
30/05/2012 02:22:21 PM
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See this maps back to my original stance ... Thanks for pointing out that Fionwe invented that
30/05/2012 05:09:14 PM
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Good, now you have one last thing (a few inches long) to remember so everything becomes clear....
30/05/2012 10:50:33 PM
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Re: That makes no sense
29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM
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Only one other thing...
29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM
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No. If that was the case Taringail would have been King of Cairhien and not have married Morgase *NM*
30/05/2012 05:52:18 AM
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Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP
30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM
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Bryne was First Prince Regent.
30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM
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No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM
- 795 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal
27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM
- 876 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM
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Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal
27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM
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I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM
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Re: I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage
28/05/2012 03:33:18 PM
- 1061 Views
I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one *NM*
28/05/2012 05:18:40 PM
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He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon.
25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM
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