Active Users:502 Time:27/12/2024 06:20:34 PM
Re: That makes no sense DomA Send a noteboard - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM
Even if Taringail remained a Damodred, why on Earth would his Royal born children NOT be Mantears. If Galad was "merely attached to Mantear" he would not be a viable choice as First Prince of the Sword for a potential Sister produced from the union.



His house doesn't matter for that. Gareth Bryne was First Prince of the Sword. He was neither Morgase's son nor husband, and definitely not a Trakand.

A Queen chooses her First Prince, it's a function. It's Andoran tradition that it's normally her husband, or her oldest brother. Elayne could make a shepherd her First Prince if she wished, but the Houses and her people would expect her to choose Gawyn, or Galad, or her husband.

Elayne or Gawyn mentionned it at some point. If Galad had not saved Gawyn's life, by tradition he would have been Elayne's First Prince. He's only her half-brother, and not even a Trakand. That's still what Elayne would have been expected to do, and Galad was well liked by everyone but Elayne.

The last war of succession in Cairhien was settled in favor of House Riatin, not Damodred. What you have to understand is that Galad then lost most of his political value in Andor. He was too young to enter the Cairhienin contest for the throne or the High Seat of Damodred, without being the puppet of another political player behind him. That couldn't be Taringail, whose duty was now in Andor.

Galad's House has no great impact in Andor. That he was Damodred strenghtened his claim in Cairhien, where his father was passed for the throne because of his marital ties to a foreign heir then a foreign ruler. That had no legal impact on Galad's claim, and due to the special circumstances, Elayne even surmounted political obstacles greater than what blocked her father's own claim from being supported.

There is no reason a Daughter Hier would forfeit her own childrens birthright to marry someone below her station...


I have no idea what you mean by that.

maybe a second son would be treated as such. By marrying Taringale she effectively removed him from Laman's line of succession ... as we know from later events ... So the Royal Daughter would have held the political advantage to the declining Damodred line.


Again, I have no idea what you're getting at, that Tigraine's daughter and heir would have had support for her claim to House Damodred? Nope, normally no, no more than Taringail. Galad, however... It's extraordinary that Elayne got any support.

Given that Andorans also do no preclude males from assuming the role of a High Seat it also makes no sense to willingly exclude Galad from succession to a powerful Andoran House ...


Tigraine was young, not even Queen yet, and no doubt meant to bear a daughter to succeed her. She would have been High Seat of Mantear. There was no foreseen vacancy to the High Seat, Mordrellen was High Seat and Queen, Tigraine would succeed her. There was Luc to be High Seat before Galad. Tigraine was expected to bear more children. We know Mordrellen didn't have a living sister (obviously), but she may well have had brothers. We have no idea of the ancestry of Perival, the current High Seat. Being chosen High Seat isn't automatic, and each House seems to have its own rules and traditions for succession. And we don't know that House Mantear might not have chosen Galad had he been older when Mordrellen died.

Tigraine could no doubt make Galad a Mantear at any given time if she didn't have a successor and wanted her son to be her heir in the House. He was her son, no one would have denied his ancestry just because she allowed his father the favour to raise him under his Cairhienin House's name to perpetuate his Cairhienin line. He would still have been her daughter's First Prince... Raising Galad a Damodred also gave the Royal House of Andor a better chance to integrate him in Cairhienin politics one day as a member of their Royal House bearing the name rather than as an Andoran noble from the Royal House of Mantear with some blood tie to Damodred - and thus maintain the peace/stability with Andor they sought to achieve by marrying Tigraine to a minor member of the Royal House of Cairhien in the first place. They had no way to foresee what kind of power Galad would really have in Cairhien one day. Taringail was not very near the Throne, merely one of several nieces/nephews of Laman. He had brothers in the line of Succession. Then Tigraine disappeared, Luc disappeared, Mordrellen died, the Aiel war killed Laman, and his brothers, and unexpectedly Taringail might suddenly have gotten the Throne, but was passed over as none would support him because that would have essentially given the Sun Crown to Andor, and his younger sisters/half-sisters also got passed over for other reasons. Finally, there was a civil war and the whole House was passed over and a rival House won.

You forget one important thing: Taringail wasn't Andoran. Only in Andor's high nobility vying for the succession to Ishara is a mother's name or House traditionally more important, but for the daughters alone as the bloodlines aren't passed through the males. Forcing Taringail to give his first son the name of his mother in effect extinguished his own line in Cairhien. That's harsh for a father, and there was no good legal reason in Andor to do that, since that changed nothing to the fact Galad was of Tigraine's blood. He wasn't raised by members of House Mantear because his father remarried! House Mantear replaced Mordrellen on the High Seat by someone else. Galad was a mere toddler at the time, and his guardian a foreign Lord, a foreign lord that for the good of Andor was better remarried to the House that Mantear supported in the Succession: Trakand.

Morgase had no interest in making Galad a Trakand, she had to think of her own children from her own blood.

When Laman died another became High Seat despite Taringail's being alive and in a powerful position. And interestingly enough Galad was not made High Seat at that time either.


He was a toddler! He would never have won the support for the HS of Damodred without Taringail joining the civil war in his name, with all the risks that entailed for Andor.

You have to see beyond the throne and High Seat. Galad's importance was far more a matter of influence. Galad Damodred remained a powerful member of House Damodred, like Moiraine, like Caraline. He would get many lands from his father, lands that because of his name remained Damodred's (some passed to Trakand down the line, because Morgase was in a position to bargain Taringail into marrying into her House if he wanted to keep any power in Andor) He could be placed at the Royal Court one day - near Laman or his sucessor, and pushed Andor's interests, but as a Damodred rather than Mantear or Trakand, easier to make accept at the Court. He could have been more useful to Andor as a Damodred there than as a Mantear or Trakand.

Even still his claim to the Sun Throne couldn't have been particularly strong since he is not a High Seat of any house.


His claim by blood was just above Elayne's own (primogeniture counts in Cairhien, to an extent), but there's far more than that in play. It's about support, and what power is behind you. Elayne's claim was worthless if the Cairhienin Houses didn't choose to recognize it and support her. The path to the Sun Throne was blocked, and anyway schemes to gain the Sun Throne would never have been without risks to Andor (could well have sparked a war). Galad might have been sent to Barthanes eventually, if there was need for Andor to pull strings with the second most powerful House in Cairhien.

but he has been pushed aside and is likely viewed by the Cairhienin as an Andoran despite the Damodred name.


He didn't play any political role because:
- He had not even completed his training
- There was currently no real need for Morgase to pull strings with House Damodred, and beside there would have been risks, given the enmity between House Damodred and the King. Sending Galad in Cairhienin politics would not exactly have been perceived as a positive development by the ruling House of Cairhien.
- Basically, Galad was just a potential tool, politically. He wasn't useful to Morgase politically for the time being. Maybe he would, one day, maybe he never would. His best potential use was all along very likely through a wedding in Cairhien to strengthen the political ties. There was no advantage to making him a Trakand unless Gawyn died, and even then it wasn't necessary for him to replace Gawyn's as Elayne's First Prince, if she wasn't married.
Reply to message
aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) - 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM 2717 Views
Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM 1224 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:04:29 PM 1143 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM 1043 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM 1246 Views
*nods in agreement* *NM* - 21/05/2012 10:46:48 PM 410 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 11:08:50 PM 1092 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 22/05/2012 01:02:16 AM 1073 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM 1148 Views
Mat and the madness... - 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM 1087 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad - 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM 1109 Views
Not Egwene though... - 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM 920 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM 915 Views
Fair enough. - 21/05/2012 11:31:10 PM 926 Views
Agreed that it's an odd blurb - 21/05/2012 11:45:03 PM 970 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM 983 Views
I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 02:35:25 AM 882 Views
Re: I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 03:41:48 AM 959 Views
Re: Mat and the madness... - 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM 1038 Views
Rand's dreams... - 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM 952 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney - 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM 1117 Views
I'd like some evidence for this. - 22/05/2012 04:14:27 AM 908 Views
It's still ingrained in the society - 22/05/2012 01:28:05 PM 1011 Views
Moridin and the link - 28/05/2012 01:45:43 AM 846 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 23/05/2012 01:06:10 PM 885 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn." - 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM 984 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM 1056 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM 899 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM 939 Views
Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM 923 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM 1057 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM 1320 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM 1467 Views
Agreed... - 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM 1018 Views
I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends - 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM 896 Views
Re: Agreed... - 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM 962 Views
I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM 970 Views
Re: I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 07:10:08 PM 966 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM 980 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM 893 Views
That makes no sense - 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM 947 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir... - 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM 889 Views
You are answering the wrong question - 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM 880 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it. - 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM 933 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened - 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM 923 Views
You're being absurd... - 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM 872 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then - 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM 845 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM 845 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne? - 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM 997 Views
We don't fully know... - 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM 750 Views
You just flipped your last statement - 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM 991 Views
You seem extremely confused... - 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM 910 Views
Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM 881 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM 1051 Views
I am not contesting the information we have - 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM 983 Views
You're impossible... - 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM 909 Views
Wow ... Not sure what is bringing out the aggression - 30/05/2012 10:19:18 PM 834 Views
*sigh* - 30/05/2012 11:45:28 PM 899 Views
DomA swore *NM* - 31/05/2012 03:39:24 PM 1008 Views
Re: That makes no sense - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM 1049 Views
Only one other thing... - 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM 777 Views
Re: Only one other thing... - 30/05/2012 12:32:58 PM 858 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP - 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM 887 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent. - 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM 865 Views
Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 06:22:52 AM 1058 Views
Re: Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 04:38:29 PM 910 Views
No he wasn't - 30/05/2012 04:16:02 PM 847 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM 810 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM 884 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM 855 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM 1000 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage - 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM 973 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon. - 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM 1194 Views
Soon might be relative... - 27/05/2012 02:08:53 AM 1386 Views
Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 09:03:57 AM 1242 Views
Re: Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 05:54:57 PM 978 Views
Right, then; here we go.... - 03/06/2012 08:45:20 AM 851 Views
Re: As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 23/05/2012 05:28:17 PM 901 Views
I think I read a fan fiction like that once *NM* - 23/05/2012 08:04:42 PM 474 Views

Reply to Message