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Re: Thoughts... DomA Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
So, Mat is going to Ebou Dar, eh? Wonder what that means for the Tower invasion. Mat will put an end to it if he makes it on time, but will he? Did RJ really plan to have two Seanchan invasions of the Tower in one book? And is Moiraine with Mat, as seems likely, or is she in Merrilor?


IMO, Mat leaves for Ebou Dar after Merrilor.

I guess there's a possibility Mat makes the decision on his own after witnessing the loss of Caemlyn to the Shadow (nice to see this confirmed at last, that's been a pet theory for several books now...) and upon hearing the WT did get attacked by the Seanchan. Mat is a military genius and he's going to see this in military terms (and he's got Moirane and Thom to discuss the politics with him). It's far from impossible he coldly calculates the Light has either lost without an alliance with Tuon, or far more interestingly, that the only way to avoid the Seanchan clashing with the Light, he must convince the Empress to give her Prince of Ravens the command of her armies for Tarmon Gai'don (in a mirror/parallel of Barid Bel Medar's betrayal... Mat would do this to serve the Light, but that wouldn't sit well with Egwene... possibly not even with Rand though that's less sure. I guess this could be the whole "I would never betray you" comment from Mat's PS trip. Not the Shadow... Mat resurfacing at the head of the Seanchan armies when the Seanchan are still enemies. And it's Mat who will have these armies fight the Shadow, not the Light. I can even see one obvious way he might do that.. by demonstrating to the Seanchan generals and Tuon their planned attack on Caemlyn will totally fail, and how he'd lead that battle... knowing all along but not telling it's now the Shadow the Seanchan will face there. That's how his reputation among generals grew originally, and how he found himself playing key strategic roles. Mat can be as crafty as a fox. If he can convince Tuon of his worth, and she's all but figured it out on her own already, he might manage to deceive her.) That would be a way in wich the alliance between the Seanchan and the rest only comes once the LB is well under way and the strength of the Shadow leaves them no other options but to unite. By then, Mat would probably be as popular and revered among the Seanchan soldiers and officers than he is (soon, was?) with the Band... perhaps more than Tuon herself...

An interesting question is whether Mat will have lost the Band of the Red Hand in Caemlyn or not (or rather to what extent). In the TW, their forerunner all perished to buy time for the population of Manetheren to flee the Shadow. I could see Talmanes doing this if he sees they have no hope of winning that battle (interesting too that with the recent merger, he's now one of Elayne's lords... the Band is definitely Elayne's "Severed Hand, not hers". A kind of replay of Manetheren's fall is certainly not impossible. We can't know for sure the Light will hear of the fall of Caemlyn before returning, Elayne may face a losing battle on her return (could she pull another heroic stunt and Travel into the occupied palace, for instance to insure her ter'angreal collection don't fall in the Shadow's hands... there may be developments at Merrilor to justify something like this... and Elayne "can't die".). There's no solid foreshadowing concerning the role of the Band in the LB.

Moiraine? *shrugs*. It depends on too many factors. For all we know, Mat's party returning from Ghenjei might reach Caemlyn after Merrilor (the timeline is so vague, all options are possible.. before, during, after). The timeline is going to massively affect the options for Moiraine's next move. She could stay with Mat until he returns to Rand, she could leave if Rand's location is known. She could also decide to go to Egwene in Tar Valon (where if things went wrong at Merrilor, she might be extremely useful, if only to remind Egwene of what she did herself, what she called "remembering how to control saidar" - a comment which had quite puzzled Egwene at the time).

What second attack on TV are we speaking of?

Jordan got us fooled, convincing most of us the dream of the Seanchan attack and the dream with the Seanchan woman were linked. They were not. In the second dream, the one she interrupted, Egwene is obviously in trouble or unable to see the light at the end of a tunnel, but it doesn't necessarily foreshadows an attack.

In KOD, the Seanchan military planned two attacks. There were two maps. One of them was Tar Valon, we don't know for sure what the second one was, but it's a good bet it was Caemlyn/the BT. I doubt the meant to hit TV a second time, even with Travelling.

And Egwene thinks Rand is mad? Where did this come from?


She doubted his sanity during and after their meeting remember.

Egwene hasn't yet met anyone who could convince her Rand is (now again) quite sane. She didn't know the man she met wasn't the man she's heard all those disturbing reports about.

Min, Cadsuane, Tam, the Borderlands rulers are some of those people who know better. None of these people will meet Egwene before Merrilor, presumably.
This message last edited by DomA on 21/05/2012 at 09:55:13 PM
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aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) - 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM 2691 Views
Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM 1202 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:04:29 PM 1126 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM 1032 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM 1234 Views
*nods in agreement* *NM* - 21/05/2012 10:46:48 PM 403 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 11:08:50 PM 1075 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 22/05/2012 01:02:16 AM 1059 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM 1133 Views
Mat and the madness... - 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM 1076 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad - 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM 1099 Views
Not Egwene though... - 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM 905 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM 901 Views
Fair enough. - 21/05/2012 11:31:10 PM 918 Views
Agreed that it's an odd blurb - 21/05/2012 11:45:03 PM 959 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM 972 Views
I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 02:35:25 AM 870 Views
Re: I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 03:41:48 AM 947 Views
Re: Mat and the madness... - 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM 1022 Views
Rand's dreams... - 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM 941 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney - 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM 1097 Views
I'd like some evidence for this. - 22/05/2012 04:14:27 AM 899 Views
It's still ingrained in the society - 22/05/2012 01:28:05 PM 1003 Views
Moridin and the link - 28/05/2012 01:45:43 AM 833 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 23/05/2012 01:06:10 PM 873 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn." - 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM 972 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM 1043 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM 887 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM 927 Views
Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM 910 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM 1038 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM 1303 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM 1444 Views
Agreed... - 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM 1001 Views
I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends - 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM 881 Views
Re: Agreed... - 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM 947 Views
I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM 952 Views
Re: I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 07:10:08 PM 955 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM 961 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM 886 Views
That makes no sense - 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM 928 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir... - 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM 875 Views
You are answering the wrong question - 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM 861 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it. - 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM 914 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened - 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM 903 Views
You're being absurd... - 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM 857 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then - 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM 828 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM 827 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne? - 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM 980 Views
We don't fully know... - 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM 737 Views
You just flipped your last statement - 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM 973 Views
You seem extremely confused... - 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM 899 Views
Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM 867 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM 1033 Views
I am not contesting the information we have - 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM 969 Views
You're impossible... - 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM 895 Views
Wow ... Not sure what is bringing out the aggression - 30/05/2012 10:19:18 PM 818 Views
*sigh* - 30/05/2012 11:45:28 PM 884 Views
DomA swore *NM* - 31/05/2012 03:39:24 PM 989 Views
Re: That makes no sense - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM 1032 Views
Only one other thing... - 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM 764 Views
Re: Only one other thing... - 30/05/2012 12:32:58 PM 839 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP - 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM 878 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent. - 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM 850 Views
Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 06:22:52 AM 1038 Views
Re: Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 04:38:29 PM 899 Views
No he wasn't - 30/05/2012 04:16:02 PM 834 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM 794 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM 875 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM 841 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM 989 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage - 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM 952 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon. - 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM 1178 Views
Soon might be relative... - 27/05/2012 02:08:53 AM 1370 Views
Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 09:03:57 AM 1224 Views
Re: Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 05:54:57 PM 960 Views
Right, then; here we go.... - 03/06/2012 08:45:20 AM 834 Views
Re: As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 23/05/2012 05:28:17 PM 890 Views
I think I read a fan fiction like that once *NM* - 23/05/2012 08:04:42 PM 469 Views

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