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Again, I never said she is or will become evil. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM
She would be a main character, but not a protagonist, if her story involved a massive fall into evil.

Obviously, forcible turning to the Shadow is more complicated than that; such a PoV would be interesting, but the authors may equal to writing it.

As for our supposed knowledge that Rand MUST break the Seals... I'm confused. What makes you think this? The only reason Rand thinks this way is because of Herid Fel's note, and his books, which were conveniently left behind after the Shadow went through an elaborate assassination to silence him. Both those sources are of doubtful provenance. In person, we have this:

"Is there any reason you can think of to break the seals?"
Herid's eyebrows shot up. "Break the seals? Break the seals? Why would anyone but a madman want to do that? Can they even be broken? I seem to remember reading somewhere they can't, but I don't recall now that it said why. What made you think of a thing like that?"
"I don't know," Rand sighed. In the back of his head Lews Therin was chanting. Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.

Actually, we have both Nynaeve and Perrin citing the same logic stated in Fels note, independently of both it and Rand: That the damaged/destroyed remnants of the old Seals must be removed before a new permanent Seal can be affixed. I do not know how it could be made more obvious, short of every character introducing themselves to each other with "Hi, I am Plot D'vice; the damaged remnants of the old Seals must be removed before a permanent one can be applied." :P

I'm not saying any of this proves Rand is wrong. But the timing of Egwene's Dream about the Seals, added to the Pattern allowing no one but her to speak to Rand in the Hall (while the same effect was certainly not true outside, before he came in), certainly points to something at play here. Likely, they both have parts of the puzzle. The Seals do need to be broken, but only just before they can Seal the DO back again, not before they even have a plan. Likely, that is precisely what Egwene's position ends up being once she can work out the meaning of her Dream in the context of what arguments Rand offers towards the breaking of the Seals.

Rand is not talking about wildly dashing off to destroy the Seals as soon as the thought occurred to him (if that were his intent, he would have already done so without informing Egwene or anyone.) He told Egwene he does yet have all the answers when informing her of his plan, and that he (rightly) desires her aid and counsel in finding them. Unfortunately, Egwene is too Hell-bent on preventing the Seals destruction (even though she was among the first to discover they are gradually failing anyway) to consider the other parts of their conversation. I might be more sympathetic to her view if she had ventured even a crude notion of an alternative, but the sum total of her position is "Rand MUST not destroy the Seals, because it would loose the DO on the world." As if that will not inevitably happen whatever they do or do not do.

Egwene has decided her Dream means Rand must be opposed at all costs, and will not be dissuaded, so if she figures out its ACTUAL meaning it will probably be at the last minute or after the fact. As things stand, her role in what they must do together consists of marshalling the Westlands soldiers and channelers for the Last Battle, to which she will then be little more than a speed bump. Obviously, as a major character, she will ultimately prove more than just a speed bump, but whether positively or negatively is yet to be seen.
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This message last edited by Joel on 21/05/2012 at 03:04:08 AM
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5021 Views
It's pretty damn cool. - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2670 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2798 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2774 Views
the pit of doom is hot - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2269 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2824 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2685 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2537 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 1988 Views
*NM* - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 1909 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2437 Views
I really like it - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2720 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2452 Views
something like this? - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3038 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2452 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2411 Views
Me, too! - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2517 Views
Well... - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2818 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2513 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2550 Views
Yeah... - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2466 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4055 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3210 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2600 Views
She is - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2705 Views
I don't know... - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2422 Views
Re: I don't know... - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2615 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2310 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2530 Views
What books have you been reading? - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2560 Views
I agree - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2667 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2622 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2321 Views
Agreed - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2428 Views
Exactly... - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2386 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2419 Views
- 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2348 Views
Re- - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2824 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2426 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2367 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2533 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2480 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2314 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2507 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2724 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2495 Views
Yeah... - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2508 Views
Re: Yeah... - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2542 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2458 Views
Look at their foreheads - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2557 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2508 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2341 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2494 Views
Idea - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2487 Views
Re: Idea - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2472 Views
Or.... - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2361 Views
This would explain the hidden hand - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2502 Views
That's a good point. - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2633 Views
Nah... - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2554 Views
Can you draw a blade - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2482 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2400 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1562 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2599 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2381 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2620 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2352 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2357 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2486 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 1931 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2303 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2430 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2582 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3412 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 1962 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2040 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2568 Views
No Maidens of the Spear - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2553 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2663 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1843 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2090 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 951 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2079 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2684 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2017 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 1953 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2466 Views
agreed - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2545 Views
Partially concur - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2325 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 904 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1398 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1357 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1178 Views

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