Indeed. That "compulsion" is called Siuan Sanche, who convinced Egwene she was wrong and to adopt this vision.
My point here was that Egwene accepted Siuans view very easily. I mean it would be one thing if there were no side-effects from the oaths, but unless I am mistaken Egwene already knew at this point that the oaths cut the lifespan of the user in half.
And all Siuan could offer for her pro-oaths view was that they are what define Aes Sedai. That seemed to me to be a very weak explanation for either dying 50% too early, or being forced to retire from the tower to some knitting circle, which in practise would mean sending the most experienced AS in the tower to the pasture.
I would have thought that Egwene, not having been "brainwashed" by years as a tower initiate should have been able to realise that Aes Sedai don't suddenly stop being Aes Sedai just because they do the smart thing and give up the oaths, and that there are other traditions that can be made up to add cohesion to the Aes Sedai, and other actions the Aes Sedai can take to make the population at large trust them (such as free healing stations in every city just to give an example).
Thats why I brought this up as one possible candidate.
That compulsion is called common sense, and even then Egwene made a secret moral decision to free Logain. That was before Halima started messing up her concentration with blinding headaches, and Halima was the one pushing to have Logain killed.
Sure, but the point was that maybe Halima enhanced aspects that were already there. So basically, Egwene was distrustfull of Rand for several reasons, and Halima might have taken advantage of that by strenghtening that distrust even more, making it more difficult for Egwene to work with Rand.
WTF? Aran'gar was long gone when Egwene could have made any such decision.
The Seanchan are the boogeyman of Egwenes (and for valid reason given the torture) and there is no doubt that of all the groups around, a tower filled with channelers would be a primary target for Seanchan attack. You don't need to be a dreamer to predict that the Seanchan would very much like destroy the tower.
Though I admit this is the least likely possibility. Mostly I was just throwing examples where Halima could have done what you yourself suggested and used compulsion+psychology to create more subtle and longer lasting compulsions by weakening/strenghtening feelings and thoughts that were already present in Egwenes mind, rather than installing forcible and blatant compulsions like "kill the dragon reborn" which Egwenes mind would instantly try to fight off as hard as possible.
That's because, as we've learned from Elza, Verin was very clever and compelled all the sisters to find in themselves the deepest motives they could find to swear an oath to TDR. It's the kind of cleverness you'd expect from Graendal. You can't get people to do what you wish unless you understand their psychology really well and find the right triggers and buttons to use.
But who is to say that Halima might not have done the same thing? Or something similar. Moghedien was never implied to be a master compeller, and even she knew that if you worked with the mind rather than against it, you could create compulsions that last a lifetime (her compulsion to LIVE). Halima may not be as good psychologist as Graendal, but that does not necessarily mean she was totally incompetent. Graendal was best of the best. Halima might have just been average compared to her, but even average might be sufficient. Especially since Halima had quite a bit of time to observe Egwene and learn her habits and what makes her tick.
The descriptions of Compulsion in TGS broke the established working of Compulsion in the previous books. Previously, it was mostly about psychology, and a very deft touch at casting the net on the right areas of the brains so you interfere with just what thought processes or emotions you mean to alter, which is why Graendal is the best. Brandon got it wrong that it's about casting complex weaves in which the orders are included... he forgot it's well established Graendal's speciality isn't brain anatomy or messing in the brain with the OP (Semirhage can do this, to stimulate nerve centers etc.) but non-OP psychology....
Actually, in Lord of Chaos chapter 6 we get a POV from Sammael, who observers Graendals "pets" who have suffered compulsion similar to that boy Nynaeve found. There Sammael thinks that its possible to use compulsion like a "hammer" and totally rewrite a persons entire mind (which Graendal does to those near her), but its also possible to use compulsion with such delicacy that its nearly undetectable. So both types of compulsions were present in the series prior to TGS, and Graendal is master at both. Brandon did not invent this.
There's zero evidence of Egwene being compelled about anything. We've got countless POVs and none of her decisions are unexplained/unmotivated.
Theres still one book to go. Truthfully, I kinda agree that there should have been some hints by now, but its still possible for some very subtle "Verin-like" compulsion to be present that will suddenly manifest in the meeting at FoM.
The biggest piece of evidence Halima never compelled Egwene (who isn't a good subject at all for Compulsion.. you forget where her great Dreaming talent comes from: her willpower!) is that she had to use Sheriam and Delana and pressure them so much to get to know what Egwene was up to, and Aran'gar beat Sheriam because Sheriam wasn't getting enough information to her in time!
This could be explained by Halima not wanting to use too rough compulsion on Egwene and damaging her mind or doing anything that would alter her to the point of suspicion. The "theory" I am suggesting is that Egwene is under some very slight and subtle compulsion and nothing more. Compulsion closer to to Verins compulsion rather than the type of compulsion Graendal uses on her pets.
If Halima had used compulsion to interrogate Egwene directly, she would have first had to use compulsion to make Egwene talk, and then actually used even more compulsion to erase her memories of that. And we know from Nynaeve that compulsion that blatant (blocked memories) can be broken through by someone with a strong willpower. Perfecly reasonable then that Halima would not have wanted to risk Egwene suddenly recalling those memories.
Egwene under compulsion
17/05/2012 05:40:31 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
17/05/2012 08:27:50 AM
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To add to that
17/05/2012 01:46:02 PM
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Re: To add to that
18/05/2012 06:04:07 AM
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Re: To add to that
18/05/2012 08:58:23 AM
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Re: To add to that
19/05/2012 04:00:49 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
18/05/2012 11:31:01 PM
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Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
18/05/2012 11:47:44 PM
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Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
19/05/2012 12:31:10 AM
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Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing.
19/05/2012 12:44:27 AM
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Re: Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing.
20/05/2012 07:01:23 AM
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Fair point on Ishamael
20/05/2012 03:36:32 PM
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Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
20/05/2012 06:54:40 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
19/05/2012 12:05:32 AM
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The Headaches
19/05/2012 04:47:23 AM
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I always thought the headaches were just something Aran'gar did to get close to Egwene
19/05/2012 04:10:32 PM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
20/05/2012 06:37:23 AM
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Like I said before...
20/05/2012 07:30:58 PM
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Re: Like I said before...
20/05/2012 08:57:17 PM
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Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things
21/05/2012 03:13:12 AM
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Re: Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things
21/05/2012 01:32:30 PM
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No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary
21/05/2012 01:48:06 PM
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Why bother? She's Egwene, and served the Shadow's end of her own free will
21/05/2012 11:13:26 PM
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Re: Why bother? She's Egwene, and served the Shadow's end of her own free will
22/05/2012 08:22:46 AM
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