Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
DomA Send a noteboard - 19/05/2012 12:31:10 AM
Strikes me that had Aran'gar effectively compelled Egwene she would not have gotten out of trouble and been given a new assignment. Instead she had to spend months sleeping next to Egwene simply to mess with her Dreaming ability ... If Aran'gar had more skill with Compulsion she would have done the job and moved on ... An effectively Compelled Amyrlin would have been a powerful tool for the Shadow.
Except of course all the examples of Compulsion but Graendal's are nowhere this effective. Moghedien herself said it best: "pity it's so limited".
Even Graendal keeps most of her compelled subjects very close to her (it's strongly implied Graendal's subtle compulsion is fine work, requiring several interventions - she compares it to sculpture).
Moghedien's compulsion stopped working rather fast after she was not longer around.
Rahvin made the same mistake with Morgase. She was under her spell as long as he kept her close and worked on her a lot, but when he started to push her aside and she was left alone for long, her personality slowly returned.
Effective compulsion works on very primary psychology. Moghedien's order "Live!" is an example. Rhavin used sexual desires/seduction - he created needs which he played on after, before he got Morgase to do anything against her will. Her mental barriers came down because of her desire for him. He didn't compel her to do specific action, he had made her besotted and boosted her libido so she'd melt and agree to his (non compelled) requests.
That's one of Graendal's favourites as well, for subjects she means to send out of fortress. She makes herself the target of deep lust, play on the libido of her male subjects. She doesn't give them compelled orders, she "reshaped" them to accept any order from her, out of passion...
For Itulrade, Graendal played on his loyalty and friendship to the King. She didn't compel him to do anything specific, she boosted his loyalty, so he'd obey every order from the King, not matter how contradictory or stupid.
She compelled Farstrider to keep an eye on Sammael's pawns. He got distracted by the fact Mat (a ta'veren) was doing it too, and hitched with him in the end... He kept following the DF with Mat until they were caught or killed or escaped. Then with time even his compulsion to forget meeting Graendal and having been in the West started to unravel... and that's Graendal's compulsion, the best.
Egwene just doesn't fit the pattern. There's no evidence of any primary trigger Aran'gar has used. Egwene hasn't changed in any meaningful radical way through the Halima episodes. Very strong evidence Egwene was never compelled by Halima is the fact she merely liked the woman and no more, and even kept reservations about her. That doesn't fit the pattern of any compelled subject we've seen, who develop very strong feelings for their compeller (except Verin's, but what she does isn't true compulsion, and because she doesn't create this feeling of deep admiration/love/lust, she can't give any order the subject would oppose, she has to suggest to them to find their own motives to act: serve Rand wouldn't work, "find within you a deep motive to swear to Rand and when you find it follow it" did).
Egwene under compulsion
17/05/2012 05:40:31 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
17/05/2012 08:27:50 AM
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To add to that
17/05/2012 01:46:02 PM
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Re: To add to that
18/05/2012 06:04:07 AM
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Re: To add to that
18/05/2012 08:58:23 AM
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Re: To add to that
19/05/2012 04:00:49 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
18/05/2012 11:31:01 PM
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Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
18/05/2012 11:47:44 PM
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Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
19/05/2012 12:31:10 AM
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Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing.
19/05/2012 12:44:27 AM
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Re: Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing.
20/05/2012 07:01:23 AM
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Fair point on Ishamael
20/05/2012 03:36:32 PM
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Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge"
20/05/2012 06:54:40 AM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
19/05/2012 12:05:32 AM
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The Headaches
19/05/2012 04:47:23 AM
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I always thought the headaches were just something Aran'gar did to get close to Egwene
19/05/2012 04:10:32 PM
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Re: Egwene under compulsion
20/05/2012 06:37:23 AM
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Like I said before...
20/05/2012 07:30:58 PM
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Re: Like I said before...
20/05/2012 08:57:17 PM
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Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things
21/05/2012 03:13:12 AM
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Re: Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things
21/05/2012 01:32:30 PM
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No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary
21/05/2012 01:48:06 PM
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Why bother? She's Egwene, and served the Shadow's end of her own free will
21/05/2012 11:13:26 PM
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Re: Why bother? She's Egwene, and served the Shadow's end of her own free will
22/05/2012 08:22:46 AM
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