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Re: Egwene under compulsion DomA Send a noteboard - 19/05/2012 12:05:32 AM
- Oaths are important and vital to beind an Aes Sedai (benefit of reduced combat ability against human darkfriends)


Indeed. That "compulsion" is called Siuan Sanche, who convinced Egwene she was wrong and to adopt this vision.

- The Dragon Reborn/Asha'man are dangerous and should be distrusted (obvious benefit)


That compulsion is called common sense, and even then Egwene made a secret moral decision to free Logain. That was before Halima started messing up her concentration with blinding headaches, and Halima was the one pushing to have Logain killed.

- Enhanced fear of Seanchan so Egwene won't send sisers away from the tower to fight the trollocs in the borderlands but will keep them in Tar Valon to protect the tower.


WTF? Aran'gar was long gone when Egwene could have made any such decision.

- And so on. Basically, just enhancing thoughts/emotions already present might have helped shadow in some ways. Even very weak compulsions like the ones Verin used can have significant effect.


That's because, as we've learned from Elza, Verin was very clever and compelled all the sisters to find in themselves the deepest motives they could find to swear an oath to TDR. It's the kind of cleverness you'd expect from Graendal. You can't get people to do what you wish unless you understand their psychology really well and find the right triggers and buttons to use.

The descriptions of Compulsion in TGS broke the established working of Compulsion in the previous books. Previously, it was mostly about psychology, and a very deft touch at casting the net on the right areas of the brains so you interfere with just what thought processes or emotions you mean to alter, which is why Graendal is the best. Brandon got it wrong that it's about casting complex weaves in which the orders are included... he forgot it's well established Graendal's speciality isn't brain anatomy or messing in the brain with the OP (Semirhage can do this, to stimulate nerve centers etc.) but non-OP psychology....

There's zero evidence of Egwene being compelled about anything. We've got countless POVs and none of her decisions are unexplained/unmotivated.

The biggest piece of evidence Halima never compelled Egwene (who isn't a good subject at all for Compulsion.. you forget where her great Dreaming talent comes from: her willpower!) is that she had to use Sheriam and Delana and pressure them so much to get to know what Egwene was up to, and Aran'gar beat Sheriam because Sheriam wasn't getting enough information to her in time! If Aran'gar was compelling Egwene, she could ask Egwene for whatever information she wanted while she was under the weaves, and with the headaches Halima had no shortage of occasions. The other related confirmation Halima didn't have her under compulsion is how she constantly asked questions or tried to remain around when Egwene had meetings, to spy.

What Halima did was give Egwene blinding headaches, which had two advantages: justify being around her more to spy, and interfering with her Dreaming ability which could become dangerous to the Shadow (as Moridin well knew, he's a Dreamer himself). It also made Egwene crankier, tired and less concentrated. Halima's interference worked but not so well. Egwene still Dreamed, if not as much as usual.

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Egwene under compulsion - 17/05/2012 05:40:31 AM 1662 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 17/05/2012 08:27:50 AM 932 Views
To add to that - 17/05/2012 01:46:02 PM 800 Views
Re: To add to that - 18/05/2012 06:04:07 AM 816 Views
Re: To add to that - 18/05/2012 08:58:23 AM 684 Views
Re: To add to that - 19/05/2012 04:00:49 AM 693 Views
Re: To add to that - 19/05/2012 11:04:14 AM 646 Views
Re: To add to that - 20/05/2012 05:38:31 AM 630 Views
I think you are misunderstanding what I meant - 18/05/2012 04:22:38 PM 646 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 18/05/2012 11:31:01 PM 810 Views
Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 18/05/2012 11:47:44 PM 595 Views
Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 19/05/2012 12:31:10 AM 803 Views
Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing. - 19/05/2012 12:44:27 AM 579 Views
Re: Yes I know. That's the point we are discussing. - 20/05/2012 07:01:23 AM 692 Views
Fair point on Ishamael - 20/05/2012 03:36:32 PM 721 Views
Re: Fair point on Ishamael - 21/05/2012 01:56:30 PM 713 Views
You are over simplifying it I think - 21/05/2012 03:33:48 PM 724 Views
Re: Except we know Aran'gar was punished in some way for "losing control of her charge" - 20/05/2012 06:54:40 AM 629 Views
Well, Elza did somehow... - 20/05/2012 11:04:56 AM 633 Views
It happened off screen - 20/05/2012 03:44:40 PM 636 Views
Re: It happened off screen - 21/05/2012 01:45:26 PM 618 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 19/05/2012 12:05:32 AM 928 Views
And lets not forget that Egwene knows to counter compulsion... - 19/05/2012 01:13:39 AM 696 Views
The Headaches - 19/05/2012 04:47:23 AM 686 Views
Re: The Headaches - 19/05/2012 05:12:26 PM 753 Views
Re: Egwene under compulsion - 20/05/2012 06:37:23 AM 630 Views
Like I said before... - 20/05/2012 07:30:58 PM 663 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 20/05/2012 08:57:17 PM 567 Views
Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things - 21/05/2012 03:13:12 AM 550 Views
Re: Finding a weave and recognizing the symptoms are different things - 21/05/2012 01:32:30 PM 621 Views
No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 01:48:06 PM 652 Views
Re: No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 01:57:44 PM 623 Views
Re: No argument that a subtle compulsion would be necessary - 21/05/2012 02:44:09 PM 680 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 21/05/2012 01:21:34 PM 543 Views
Re: Like I said before... - 21/05/2012 06:00:35 PM 692 Views
Seems logical to me, for whatever that is worth. - 21/05/2012 07:28:11 PM 497 Views

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