Re: Yup... - Edit 1
Before modification by DomA at 16/05/2012 01:30:37 AM
I don't think the dumbing down was intentional, either. And I think your explanation is as good as any for why she ended up being portrayed this way.
What always made Graendal PoVs interesting, as written by Jordan, was how cerebral they were. She was a very self-aware character, not something you often see in an "evil character" in fiction from that time. I always feel one of the major losses in characterization in the Jordan-Sanderson transition was how intelligent people are portrayed. Cadsuane was a loss, we don't have any Verin or Moridin PoVs yet, Siuan seemed less intelligent, and so do Egwene and Rand, though to lesser extents, probably because they got more "moments of awesome" to take away from their slightly reduced intelligence. Elayne is not given as much of a chance to think about things and speculate...
As you pointed out with Graendal's thought process on encountering Ramshalan, you can see how Bandon struggles a bit in how to naturally write an intelligent person reaching a clever conclusion.
Contrast that to how Jordan wrote Romanda realizing Halima was a Foresaken male channeler. There's gentle buildup where we're exposed to the way she works things out, and when she does reach her conclusion, it isn't a sudden intuitive leap. Instead, several things peppered throughout the chapter fall together.
My early insistence that Graendal was alive came from how RJ wrote her. No way would she be totally blindsided by Rand's "brilliant" plan. I suspect, though, that this was one place where Jordan wrote the expected end point, but not the mechanism to reach it, and hence Brandon filled in the blanks.
What I think Jordan would have done is have Graendal make Delana alone weave compulsion. When Graendal figured out what Rand was up to, she and Aran'gar would have escaped. Then, Graendal would have been broken/mind trapped for her failure, and Aran'gar would have been given the task of killing Perrin.
For Graendal herself, I think the role RJ envisioned was different (and I think we'll see this in aMoL): She will be Moridin's pet consultant. There's nobody else who can begin to understand the man that Rand has become. Graendal is the only one, per Semirhage, who has occasionally achieved reintegration in people who hear voices from their past lives. I think we'll find out that she is the one who pointed out to Moridin that if Rand has all of LTT's memories, then LTT's past feelings for Meirin Eronaile, added up to the sane Rand's penchant for saving women in trouble works up to a way in for the Shadow to get a hook on the Light's Champion again. I think Rand's reintegration and epiphany in tGS must have severely increased the need for a psychologist in a Shadow, and I think RJ intended Graendal to lose her freedom purely because it didn't make much sense that she would give useful aid to Moridin unless she was under his total control.
What always made Graendal PoVs interesting, as written by Jordan, was how cerebral they were. She was a very self-aware character, not something you often see in an "evil character" in fiction from that time. I always feel one of the major losses in characterization in the Jordan-Sanderson transition was how intelligent people are portrayed. Cadsuane was a loss, we don't have any Verin or Moridin PoVs yet, Siuan seemed less intelligent, and so do Egwene and Rand, though to lesser extents, probably because they got more "moments of awesome" to take away from their slightly reduced intelligence. Elayne is not given as much of a chance to think about things and speculate...
As you pointed out with Graendal's thought process on encountering Ramshalan, you can see how Bandon struggles a bit in how to naturally write an intelligent person reaching a clever conclusion.
Contrast that to how Jordan wrote Romanda realizing Halima was a Foresaken male channeler. There's gentle buildup where we're exposed to the way she works things out, and when she does reach her conclusion, it isn't a sudden intuitive leap. Instead, several things peppered throughout the chapter fall together.
My early insistence that Graendal was alive came from how RJ wrote her. No way would she be totally blindsided by Rand's "brilliant" plan. I suspect, though, that this was one place where Jordan wrote the expected end point, but not the mechanism to reach it, and hence Brandon filled in the blanks.
What I think Jordan would have done is have Graendal make Delana alone weave compulsion. When Graendal figured out what Rand was up to, she and Aran'gar would have escaped. Then, Graendal would have been broken/mind trapped for her failure, and Aran'gar would have been given the task of killing Perrin.
For Graendal herself, I think the role RJ envisioned was different (and I think we'll see this in aMoL): She will be Moridin's pet consultant. There's nobody else who can begin to understand the man that Rand has become. Graendal is the only one, per Semirhage, who has occasionally achieved reintegration in people who hear voices from their past lives. I think we'll find out that she is the one who pointed out to Moridin that if Rand has all of LTT's memories, then LTT's past feelings for Meirin Eronaile, added up to the sane Rand's penchant for saving women in trouble works up to a way in for the Shadow to get a hook on the Light's Champion again. I think Rand's reintegration and epiphany in tGS must have severely increased the need for a psychologist in a Shadow, and I think RJ intended Graendal to lose her freedom purely because it didn't make much sense that she would give useful aid to Moridin unless she was under his total control.
I totally agree about all the points concerning POVs. We'll have to agree to disagree on Graendal's end though. I agree Brandon had to fill many blanks, but I stick to my conviction RJ had built up to an Aran'gar/Graendal confrontation in KOD, and his idea was to turn AD into a dangerous madhouse with Graendal attempting to manipulate Rand and Aran'gar trying to divert her efforts to get Rand killed. We wouldn't have seen much of the string pulling, that would have been more effective to let us see the effects through Rand. The only advantage we would have had on him is the knowledge there was the conflicting plans of two Forsaken in play. It would have been suspenseful never to know beforehand if one blow was a manipulation from G, or a scheme to kill from A.
I tend to think RJ intended one of Aran'gar's "diversions" to be the trigger that combined to the fact Rand had "lost it", made him rush to NB and balefire the whole fortress (but I think the Nyaneve subplot was outlined by RJ, though. It was a very clever mirror of how I think Graendal ended up killing Asmodean). Focussed on Rand, Graendal would have realized her peril too late, and in revenge trapped Aran'gar and Delana and fled. Of course RJ always intended Delana to be the one to compel Ramshalan, that's why he had Delana flee with Aran'gar in the first place. Then SH put an end to Graendal's career.
This ending, which I think RJ outlined the great lines of at least, is pretty much all that remains of that storyline except for the TOM prologue scene which I think RJ at least drafted (Graendal is somewhat back more to her old self in that one, but not in any other scene). I believe Brandon wrote the TGS prologue scene himself by excizing ideas from RJ'S scene, and showed Graendal's meeting with Moridin on screen using those. I think RJ rather intended to set the scene at Graendal's palace, opening with her return from Moridin's place and meeting with her "guest" Aran'gar. The orders, the promises, the TP etc., we'll have gotten through her POV as she manoeuvered with Aran'gar. It was an excellent "starter" because that's the moment when whatever Graendal meant to do with Aran'gar, the fact Moridin just promised her the moon changed all of that, and now she had to hide from Aran'gar her sudden rise in favour, and all that. The scene as it stands in TOM is not as good, and I suspect it's because Brandon took away from it much material related to the Moridin meeting to build the "prequel" version without Aran'gar in TGS. Not even revealing to us that Aran'gar was in AD in TGS is one of the very few things I really can't forgive Brandon for (I really don't like TGS/TOM, but my actual lists of things I really have huge gripes over is fairly short. Ruining the Aran'gar/Graendal storyline is one of those. The scene with Aran'gar should really have gone in TGS. I also moan a lot over the fact Brandon chose to put Rand's POV in TGS, and Graendal's counter POV in TOM. That's so inconceivable someone would do something like this to get a useless idiot cliffhanger that it convinced me Graendal was dead and Brandon just mishandled it and gave her no POV, like he had given her barely any involvement in the storyline itself.).
I'm sure RJ meant Aran'gar to die at the palace in Graendal's place. Nothing suggests Slayer wasn't up to dealing with Perrin himself on Moridin's orders, in fact Graendal let him do everything... except for her useless compulsion of a character that was predestined since EOTW to disobey any order from his leader if it involved showing any mercy or forgiveness to Perrin.
I don't agree either that making Graendal a useful pet is such a good idea. Moridin doesn't need Graendal to do his thinking for him, and Moridin can't have Graendal do his thinking for him because Moridin hide his real goal of the destruction of Creation from all the Forsaken. Beside, it's Cyndane Moridin is now using for "mind games" with Rand. He doesn't need Graendal to tell him of LTT's weakness when it comes to Lanfear, or women in general. Moridin simply underestimates the Epiphany and the changes it brought to think a gamble like this will work. Graendal would have too. Graendal would be totally out of her depth with Rand now - Rand she expected well on his way to terminal insanity, and certainly beyond repair. She wouldn't understand fast enough what happened, that Rand managed what she has deemed impossible and merged functionally with LTT.
I think making her end as a useless sex toy for a Myrrdraal is a much better end for her. There's a very cruel irony to it, and it's so much more like all her "decorative" and useless pets. The fact it's such a perfect ending, just like Mesaana's perfect ending (a scholar having her brain destroyed, or how Semirhage was the victim of her own pulsions she lost control of) convinces me it's Graendal's effective end in the series, even if it isn't necessarily her last appearance (she may be paraded around a bit - as a decorative pet - but she won't do much of anything).
It's preferable if I'm right anyway, considering Brandon writes Graendal poorly.
There are a few characters like this I weirdly hope won't have too huge a presence until the end, because I don't really like how Brandon writes them. Not Mat, obviously - he has to be massively there, but Cadsuane, Graendal, Tuon would be on that list.
I stand a good chance to like AMOL much better than the previous two, now that my #1 book breaking pet peeve resulting from the poorly handled split of the pre-TG material is out of the way. I can't possibly see how Brandon could possibly mess up the chronology from this point on. How much exactly I enjoy AMOL (I'll be happy to know how it ends no matter what, it doesn't mean I'll have fun reading the book, though) might depend on details like not too much Cadsuane, Tuon etc. because they're favourites, but not BS's version of them.
We'll see, but for Graendal I'm very tempted to tell you "be careful what you wish for".