Fair enough.

You can't compare those two. Narishma was a full Asha'man, with the knowledge of all the weaves the Asha'man in general know. And he was being asked to go unmake wards Rand himself had set, in a non-threatening location.

Bode, on the other hand, was a Novice with none of the experience of other weaves Aes Sedai know. And she was being sent right to the heart of a war zone, to do something that Egwene can manifestly do much better, much more quickly.

For a better comparison, look at how Rand went and fought off the Trolloc hordes in Maradon, instead of delegating. In both cases, Egwene/Rand had a great human moment, but that didn't change the fact that these were asinine moves for a leader to make. By doing these things, they showed that while they are great leaders and capable of making cold calculations, there are times when their emotions get the better of them. It is a sign of immaturity, but at the same time, it is not a moral failing of any kind as you seem to imply.

Egwene has delegated plenty when delegation involved non-threatening situations where she isn't the best for the job. Sitters were asked to research Mesaana and the ways she could have beaten the Oath Rod, despite Egwene's own much greater abilities in the Power. Sisters were asked to spy on the Black Ajah meeting, and Nynaeve was given the task of leading the assault against them. Bryne has complete control over the army and preparing the defenses for Tar Valon. Siuan has total control over the Eyes and Ears network, Rosil has total control over the Novices and Accepted...


Nope. As I'll show, there is more than one sign of Egwene killing Rand, and only one of her being under threat of being turned (which has happened already).

Nope.

Egwene, with tears in her eyes, plunged a dagger into his heart, and he thanked her as he died.

From Rand's Portal Stone viewings. Then there are Arthurian parallels which indicate Gawyn will be involved in betraying Rand/killing him. Which matches with Gawyn's character arc, of course.

So there is quite more than one hint of Egwene being involved in Rand's death.


What is absurd is that it is so much harder since ToM to find fault in Egwene's actions.

Thank you for this truism. But what is your point? As Brandon clearly mentions, he had access to Jordan's notes, and he's saying that her culmination as a great leader was set up by Jordan from KoD (which is significant, because, of course, that is when she got out of Siuan's yoke and came into her own as a leader).


Nor will he lie though. As he said in another quote, Egwene's character development is complete. There isn't a huge humiliating lesson in the offing. She is, as a person, at the point where she can be let lose as an effective character and leader in the Last Battle.

If Egwene's plan was to use that army to coerce Rand, then you'd have a point:


Clearly, she has arguments to present.



And there is no plan to coerce Rand. There is the hope that a united front will sway him. There is also no plan to manipulate or force leaders who won't support her into following her.


That is now. Brandon was referring to tGS. She is obviously very mighty indeed now. But she is going to present arguments, not hope that the extent of her influence will do the job.


She had few opportunities?



She had every opportunity to manipulate the sisters to hasten Elaida's fall, and her own rise to power. She chose instead to work on bridging divides, uniting them, strengthening them. Had she unseated Elaida by fracturing the Tower further, she could have held unrivaled power in the reunited WT. As a Novice, she would have sniffed out all the factions, and by her actions could have laid the groundwork for the formation of irreparable cracks among the Ajahs, which she could then have played against one another to gain absolute control. She had all the political skill to achieve this, and an unrivaled opportunity as an unrestricted Novice to swiftly achieve this. She chose not to. She chose to build consensus. She chose to unify, rather than conquer by exacerbating existing divisions. Rather than play to her strengths, and the skills she had honed under Siuan's tutelage in the Rebel camp, she chose to do something risky, but morally correct. Which is what Brandon was referring to.

That you find these two times comparable is mystifying.



Siuan here makes a clear distinction between her style of leadership (which Egwene, perforce, had to follow in Salidar), and the way Egwene has been leading since the WT was reunited. Its why so many Sitters who stood against her, from Saerin to Yukiri to Doesine, stand so firmly behind Egwene. Egwene did not manipulate or coerce any of these highly competent women into following her. They do so because they respect the fact that Egwene doesn't force people. For example, in ToM, she had more than enough political capital to force penance on the Hall for meeting in secret. After the recent split, no one would have even seen it as particularly tyrannical. She chose instead to blunt both the Hall's and her own ability to make important decisions by manipulation and secrecy. Instead of maneuvering behind the scene, everyone in the Hall is now forced to seek consensus, including Egwene. And she made this choice when she knew very well that her support in the Hall did not even include enough sisters that she can easily achieve the Lesser Consensus on any issue dear to her. Take the alliance with the Wise Ones and Windfinders. In the eyes of too many Sitters in the Hall, this will mean giving up too much power, yet Egwene knows how necessary and right such an alliance is. Yet, even as she knew this would be coming up, she negated any chance of her being able to force this treaty by stuffing the Hall with her supporters and those Sitters likely to be receptive to it.

She knows the importance of this alliance. In the face of the Last Battle, there is sufficient moral leeway for her to call a secret meeting of the Hall. She would, after all, be doing something dodgy for an end that is good and right. She could have justified such behavior in her head with great ease (as Elaida apparently did). However, she herself preempted any chance of such an act. She will now have to seek consensus in a mostly hostile Hall of the Tower.

Now, if it is really in Egwene's character to dismiss others opinions, and demand that things be done her way because she knows she is right, why would she do such a thing? Her actions flagrantly contradict the personality trait you attribute to her.

On the flip side, neither is she naive enough to think that good intentions will be enough. When she saw that the Hall was giving her an opening, she took it and wrested control of the White Tower's dealings with the rulers of the world (and hence Rand) for herself. You could argue that this is proof that she does want total control, but her other actions prove otherwise. We are left then with one other motive: the one she states-

"Though I doubt Aes Sedai will ever stop trying to maneuver.
They simply cannot be allowed to dice with the Last Battle or the Dragon Reborn."

A very... rational position, no?


You need to understand that a certain amount of maneuvering is inevitable in leadership. You can't lead without the expecting people to follow your orders. No leader can explain all their motives and plans to their subordinates. No leader can wait for consensus to be built while only using conversation and debate to change peoples minds. That sounds great in theory, but cannot be applied in practice. If you disagree, name one leader who hasn't ever maneuvered, or used the carrot and the stick approach, or preempted opposition.

The true difference between a good and a bad leader is not in their goals. Both have plans and ideas that they want implemented. What differentiates them is the means they use to achieve these ends. When they coerce, they are wrong (Elaida, Dark Rand). When they play factional politics to the detriment of the overall political order, they are wrong (Egwene in Salidar, Siuan). But when they balance out the manipulation of their opponents expectations (Rand in the Hall of the Tower, Egwene in the Hall with the control of negotiations, both in ToM), and the reach/fear of their power (Egwene using Mattin Steppaneos to convince Gregorin to come to Merillor, Rand in the end of ToM, planning to use the rulers fear of him to force them into his price for going to SG), with appeals to the better natures of those they face to create greater unity (Egwene, with the creation of the newer system in the Hall, Rand in multiple small instances in ToM), you can see they are good leaders indeed.

If you disagree, and continue to hold that because Egwene did manipulate people in ToM, she is a bad leader, then you need to answer the hypocrisy of not calling out Rand on the same. He did manipulate Egwene and the Hall. He did coerce the Borderland rulers to swear to him. He is planning to coerce the leaders of the world into accepting his demands... Yet, you hold Rand up as an example of excellent leadership. You focus on the parts of Egwene's leadership you find distasteful, and condemn her for it, but totally ignore the same actions from Rand, and only focus on the good things he did. Why so?

When they used Need in this instance, they specifically looked for something to help tie Rand to the Aes Sedai, not something that would help them with TAR!

Dude, this is the misinterpretation I'm talking about. Brandon said her character development was complete, and that she was ready for the LB. If she has a fall that will humble her, then her character development is obviously not complete.

The difference is, you see this as a game of excuses and defenses. What you so conveniently ignore, repeatedly, are facts. You may believe you're being reasonable with regard to her character, but by ignoring the same traits in Rand's political leadership in ToM, you show your bias.