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Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM

I'm kind of shocked that anyone thinks that Egwene is in for a fall in the last book. She's going to be one of the principle protagonists.

Just because she doesn't agree with Rand doesn't mean she's in for the plunge. That's a very simplistic way of looking at her character.

The list of people who disagreed with Rand includes Nynaeve, Min, Aviendha, Elayne, Cadsuane, Lan, Moiraine, Perrin... are we sensing a Pattern here yet?

We know for a fact that there have been previous turnings where the Pattern has set a counter to the Dragon soul. That counter was Hawkwing, who has worked with the Dragon as many times as he has opposed him.

What people don't seem to get is that opposition to the Dragon is not a sign of evil.

I'm not saying that Egwene's soul is also a counter the Wheel has used many times (I don't think she's LPD reborn, for example). But she certainly is being used as such at this point. And she has several Parallels with Hawkwing, too.

What mystifies me is that these people don't seem to pick on the respect Egwene and Rand display for each other in ToM. Are they set on a collision course? Sure. Are they exasperated by each other? Sure. Do they show respect for what the other has become? Yes!

These aren't rivals in a power play. These are allies who disagree. FoM is going to be nowhere close to the acrimonious battle of wills so many people are expects (even hoping).

And all signs point to them soon learning to work together, and Egwene being involved in Rand's "death". In many ways, the Seals debate is a distraction. I'm not even entirely sure Brandon didn't invent it to give a convenient end point to ToM, and that the real FoM debate was supposed to be about the Seanchan and the Dragon's Peace.

If you recall, my whole premise here is that one of the WoTs major themes is good people coming to epically bad ends because they believe everyone else too dishonest/stupid to be trusted with any pivotal part in saving the world. An aspect of that is that by restricting that to the Nialls, Elaidas and Siuans of Randland makes it harder to catch, and that subjecting even (especially) a protagonist to it drives the message home nicely. Egwenes case is particularly striking; she even thinks the DRAGON REBORN incompetent to act without her hands firmly on the reins (regardless of trivial things like 3000 years of prophecy.)

That approach is only effective precisely BECAUSE she is not evil. If she does experience an epic fall, being turned to the Shadow is likely to figure prominently in that, given how often the subject has come up around her in the series. However, it would not be that she falls because she is evil, but that she is turned to evil because she falls. She would make a pretty "bad ass" Dreadlord at the Last Battle; what if her character development has set her up for THAT...?

Like I say, I think it is even money, but dismissing it out of hand based on the evidence we have strikes me as presumptuous.
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5034 Views
It's pretty damn cool. Stephen - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2683 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Artsapat - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2809 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2784 Views
the pit of doom is hot alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2280 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Tweak - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2837 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2698 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2548 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* HousealThor - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 1996 Views
*NM* Tweak - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 1916 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Bored - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2448 Views
I really like it LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2733 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2464 Views
something like this? guttering flame - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3053 Views
well, for one, I didn't say it was "wrong" so don't jump down my throat. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:03:06 PM 2602 Views
If you think that was jumping down your throat... seriously... *NM* HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:51:45 PM 2122 Views
when I initially read it, it came off that way. I apologize if I misinterpreted you. *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/05/2012 04:58:13 PM 2064 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) djwilson300 - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2467 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2426 Views
Me, too! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2528 Views
Well... DomA - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2832 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2522 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn NaClH2O - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2562 Views
Yeah... DomA - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2484 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4069 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3225 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... fionwe1987 - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2613 Views
She is DomA - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2716 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2431 Views
Re: I don't know... DomA - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2627 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... fionwe1987 - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2322 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" Joel - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2542 Views
What books have you been reading? fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2571 Views
Egwene made many things "clear;" I dug up all the ToM quotes for a post near this time last year Joel - 11/05/2012 01:12:05 PM 2385 Views
I agree DomA - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2679 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. Joel - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2631 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2334 Views
Agreed Sidious - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2439 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2395 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2438 Views
fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2360 Views
Re- Joel - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2835 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2439 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2380 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2542 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Sidious - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2495 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2322 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2518 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2736 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. DomA - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2504 Views
Yeah... fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2517 Views
Re: Yeah... DomA - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2556 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2471 Views
Look at their foreheads Tor - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2564 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn DomA - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2523 Views
I could be wrong, but I believe Rand used Calandor as a sword in the Stone. HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 08:06:45 PM 2339 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2355 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2508 Views
Idea Timthetrolloc - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2496 Views
Re: Idea Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2482 Views
Or.... Artsapat - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2372 Views
This would explain the hidden hand PatAtt - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2512 Views
That's a good point. Nate - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2649 Views
Nah... HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2563 Views
Can you draw a blade guttering flame - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2495 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2411 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1574 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2610 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2394 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2631 Views
Thanks! *NM* Sidious - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2362 Views
I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. Joel - 11/05/2012 01:35:34 PM 2511 Views
Re: I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. DomA - 11/05/2012 04:06:50 PM 2302 Views
Egwene-Mat... fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 09:05:07 PM 2408 Views
Re: Egwene-Mat... DomA - 12/05/2012 05:31:29 AM 2747 Views
Egwenes problem is her knack for seeing the error of her ways without ever LEARNING it. Joel - 13/05/2012 04:57:27 AM 2691 Views
The Seanchan assassin... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:47:53 AM 2327 Views
You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:08:26 AM 2373 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:08:11 AM 2408 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 21/05/2012 01:59:15 AM 2448 Views
looks a little 'naughty pirate novel' but is pretty fricken awesome! *NM* Yunalesca - 03/05/2012 06:50:42 PM 1950 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Gartax - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2368 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2496 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* DomA - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 1938 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* Gartax - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2309 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2440 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... DomA - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2594 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3421 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* Milla - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 1968 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* mogi67 - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2047 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... wolfsister - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2578 Views
No Maidens of the Spear Knightscape - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2565 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2672 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1851 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2095 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* guttering flame - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 957 Views
Right, my mistake. Then she cut her hair to make it straight again. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 08:54:33 PM 1991 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2085 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: Nate - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2696 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* Skeeve the Great - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2024 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* guttering flame - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 1960 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? Joel - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2477 Views
It's Michael Whelan's signature. I looked it up and found it in a different book cover *NM* Deadsy - 11/05/2012 07:05:22 AM 1956 Views
agreed Sidious - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2558 Views
Partially concur HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2338 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* Deadsy - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 911 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted LadyLorraine - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1410 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too Yunalesca - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1370 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers A Deathwatch Guard - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1190 Views
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