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Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM

I'm kind of shocked that anyone thinks that Egwene is in for a fall in the last book. She's going to be one of the principle protagonists.

Just because she doesn't agree with Rand doesn't mean she's in for the plunge. That's a very simplistic way of looking at her character.

The list of people who disagreed with Rand includes Nynaeve, Min, Aviendha, Elayne, Cadsuane, Lan, Moiraine, Perrin... are we sensing a Pattern here yet?

We know for a fact that there have been previous turnings where the Pattern has set a counter to the Dragon soul. That counter was Hawkwing, who has worked with the Dragon as many times as he has opposed him.

What people don't seem to get is that opposition to the Dragon is not a sign of evil.

I'm not saying that Egwene's soul is also a counter the Wheel has used many times (I don't think she's LPD reborn, for example). But she certainly is being used as such at this point. And she has several Parallels with Hawkwing, too.

What mystifies me is that these people don't seem to pick on the respect Egwene and Rand display for each other in ToM. Are they set on a collision course? Sure. Are they exasperated by each other? Sure. Do they show respect for what the other has become? Yes!

These aren't rivals in a power play. These are allies who disagree. FoM is going to be nowhere close to the acrimonious battle of wills so many people are expects (even hoping).

And all signs point to them soon learning to work together, and Egwene being involved in Rand's "death". In many ways, the Seals debate is a distraction. I'm not even entirely sure Brandon didn't invent it to give a convenient end point to ToM, and that the real FoM debate was supposed to be about the Seanchan and the Dragon's Peace.

If you recall, my whole premise here is that one of the WoTs major themes is good people coming to epically bad ends because they believe everyone else too dishonest/stupid to be trusted with any pivotal part in saving the world. An aspect of that is that by restricting that to the Nialls, Elaidas and Siuans of Randland makes it harder to catch, and that subjecting even (especially) a protagonist to it drives the message home nicely. Egwenes case is particularly striking; she even thinks the DRAGON REBORN incompetent to act without her hands firmly on the reins (regardless of trivial things like 3000 years of prophecy.)

That approach is only effective precisely BECAUSE she is not evil. If she does experience an epic fall, being turned to the Shadow is likely to figure prominently in that, given how often the subject has come up around her in the series. However, it would not be that she falls because she is evil, but that she is turned to evil because she falls. She would make a pretty "bad ass" Dreadlord at the Last Battle; what if her character development has set her up for THAT...?

Like I say, I think it is even money, but dismissing it out of hand based on the evidence we have strikes me as presumptuous.
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5618 Views
It's pretty damn cool. Stephen - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 3196 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Artsapat - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 3267 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 3255 Views
the pit of doom is hot alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2775 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Tweak - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 3303 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 3218 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 3044 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* HousealThor - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 2281 Views
*NM* Tweak - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 2195 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Bored - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2919 Views
I really like it LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 3209 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2928 Views
something like this? guttering flame - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3585 Views
well, for one, I didn't say it was "wrong" so don't jump down my throat. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:03:06 PM 3107 Views
If you think that was jumping down your throat... seriously... *NM* HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:51:45 PM 2388 Views
when I initially read it, it came off that way. I apologize if I misinterpreted you. *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/05/2012 04:58:13 PM 2392 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) djwilson300 - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2928 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2931 Views
Me, too! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 3052 Views
Well... DomA - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 3350 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 3105 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn NaClH2O - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 3018 Views
Yeah... DomA - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2981 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4793 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3857 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... fionwe1987 - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 3096 Views
She is DomA - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 3216 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2914 Views
Re: I don't know... DomA - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 3261 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... fionwe1987 - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2880 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" Joel - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 3117 Views
What books have you been reading? fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 3100 Views
Egwene made many things "clear;" I dug up all the ToM quotes for a post near this time last year Joel - 11/05/2012 01:12:05 PM 2884 Views
I agree DomA - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 3202 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. Joel - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 3156 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2823 Views
Agreed Sidious - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2895 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2849 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2951 Views
fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2808 Views
Re- Joel - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 3366 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2980 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2932 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 3083 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Sidious - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 3049 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2856 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 3059 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 3272 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. DomA - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2979 Views
Yeah... fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 3010 Views
Re: Yeah... DomA - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 3133 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 3017 Views
Look at their foreheads Tor - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 3092 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn DomA - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 3064 Views
I could be wrong, but I believe Rand used Calandor as a sword in the Stone. HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 08:06:45 PM 2852 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2840 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 3138 Views
Idea Timthetrolloc - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2948 Views
Re: Idea Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2986 Views
Or.... Artsapat - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2871 Views
This would explain the hidden hand PatAtt - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2977 Views
That's a good point. Nate - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 3187 Views
Nah... HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 3006 Views
Can you draw a blade guttering flame - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2974 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2892 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 2056 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 3171 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2901 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 3442 Views
Thanks! *NM* Sidious - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2899 Views
I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. Joel - 11/05/2012 01:35:34 PM 2996 Views
Re: I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. DomA - 11/05/2012 04:06:50 PM 2845 Views
Egwene-Mat... fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 09:05:07 PM 2908 Views
Re: Egwene-Mat... DomA - 12/05/2012 05:31:29 AM 3318 Views
Egwenes problem is her knack for seeing the error of her ways without ever LEARNING it. Joel - 13/05/2012 04:57:27 AM 3167 Views
The Seanchan assassin... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:47:53 AM 2810 Views
You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:08:26 AM 2936 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:08:11 AM 2944 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 21/05/2012 01:59:15 AM 2936 Views
looks a little 'naughty pirate novel' but is pretty fricken awesome! *NM* Yunalesca - 03/05/2012 06:50:42 PM 2249 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Gartax - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2833 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 3036 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* DomA - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 2220 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* Gartax - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2591 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2997 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... DomA - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 3119 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3994 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* Milla - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 2288 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* mogi67 - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2339 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... wolfsister - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 3103 Views
No Maidens of the Spear Knightscape - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 3041 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 3173 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 2132 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2367 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* guttering flame - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 1236 Views
Right, my mistake. Then she cut her hair to make it straight again. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 08:54:33 PM 2264 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2389 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: Nate - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 3317 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* Skeeve the Great - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2302 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* guttering flame - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 2228 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? Joel - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2899 Views
It's Michael Whelan's signature. I looked it up and found it in a different book cover *NM* Deadsy - 11/05/2012 07:05:22 AM 2214 Views
agreed Sidious - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 3066 Views
Partially concur HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2799 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* Deadsy - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 1182 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted LadyLorraine - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1929 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too Yunalesca - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1869 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers A Deathwatch Guard - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1641 Views
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