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I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. Joel Send a noteboard - 11/05/2012 01:35:34 PM
Maybe my old (well, dating back partly to TGS and partly to TOM, but I have like half a dozen contradictory ones) theory that Rand is using Callandor as a foil may be right, ie: he doesn't bring Callandor to use it, he brings Callandor so Shaidar Haran thinks he's gonna use it and seizes it. "Mwahh, ah, ah... just three of you and intending to touch me again, but allowing me to touch saidar too this time, you really thought this through!", then Rand does something, perhaps to Callandor instead of with Callandor, or something while Shaidar Haran uses Callandor (it it turns out the reason why it magnifies the taint is that unlike other san'angreal this one would work with the TP - kind of a long-shot, but its making is shabby. Could RJ have kept to himself there was also sabotage involved?).

I'm half serious with this (in the sense that's obviously missing a crucial element somewhere that could make it a viable theory - I get the feeling it would be really hard to figure it out anyway as I'm convinced RJ kept a key concept or key element from us at this point), but Min did had a viewing of a black (or dark) hand holding Callandor, so it's something the Light could anticipate happening.


Many people think that it refers to Moridin, but it could be any darkened hand... SH, Demandred, even Taim. I still stick by my original theory that the True Power is the secret to sealing the Bore. It is the only power that can deflect a retaliation by the Dark One. Moridin never planned to cross balefire with Rand, and I refuse to believe that Rand's ability to draw on the TP comes down to a coincidental accident at SL that the Shadow took advantage of. There's a greater purpose for his connection to Moridin. Maybe it only has to do with soul transfer at the last second, but it could very well be that the TP provides the mechanism for success. Maybe Rand won't use it directly, but he can perhaps give Moridin/SH such a fright that he buys some time to strike with finality.

I wonder if what's look like it could be a dagger at his side is a dagger, the dragon scepter or else if it could be the dagger-shaped ter'angreal that's supposed to hide someone from the Shadow. The possibilities for that one being used in another episode than at SG are not exhausted, but the possibilities have run out a little since Mat and Elayne are done with the gholam. I guess it could still be very useful to Mat during the LB if neither SH/the DO nor Shadowspawn can't see or sense him in any way (I doubt this works on human sworn to the DO like Forsaken).

I've also wondered whether that dagger will return, though I think it's cheating a bit. Surprise! Not really the Dragon's style, but I guess winning is winning.

I know the cover art don't prove anything but it at least made me think of this idea: Rand and Moraine/Nynaeve don't look one bit as if they've just seen battle. I guess there's really a possibility they are alone and there's no gigantic battle raging outside in the Valley as there was during LTT's Strike, that those three are there alone, or sneaked up there while Mat organize a diversion at the mouth of the valley, far from the mountain itself.


Indeed, though making them seem haggard would be a bit strange in a book dedicated to Rand's victory. That said, I think they will fight as arduously as their friends. I'm pretty sure Rand will personally kill some of the Forsaken, Nynaeve seems to be on a collision course with Graendal, and Moiraine's angreal has an obvious purpose. It does seem, however, that Rand will break away with the two women at some point and Travel to SG to finish it. There is something missing as you say, but Rand will tell us about that in due course.

Another little detail to which you will know the answer for sure (though I suspect I know it if I remember correctly a mention by Rhavin or Sammael): can Rand even lead in that circle or must one of the two women lead?

He cannot, it must be led by a woman. I find this to be a serious reason as to why this circle may not happen. I can't believe that Rand will merely be part of a circle and that Nynaeve, or worse Moiraine, will seal the DO away. He could lead the circle if he links with one of them, but then Callandor will remain unstable as it requires two women to stabilize the missing buffer.

Just saying, because we know Moiraine considers herself fairly weak/clumsy with at least two flows (Earth and Fire) and RJ described Nynaeve as very specialized and lacking in the other areas outside the healing weaves (though we know she can be fairly precise/delicate). Of course, at this point neither of them has any experience using saidin in a mixed gender circle either.

Unless it doesn't come down to the Power at all. It may be all about trust, and Rand more than hinted at it when he asked Nynaeve. Her strength and abilities had little to do with it. Even if it does come down to the Power, their role in a circle with him will merely be to stabilize Callandor, though one of them will have to lead. Moiraine is a poor choice if it comes down to skill and ability - she's one of the weakest Aes Sedai around and noticibly poor in Earth and Fire, which strengthens the theory that one of those women is Egwene, overall the most naturally talented female channelers around.

Another interesting tidbit: we might want to start considering new possibilities for how Alivia is supposed to help Rand die, since she's now ruled out as the second woman at the Pit.

Either Rand has already gone through death, or it's not at the Pit at all he will die. Always possible Alivia think of something that will inspire Rand, but she never striked me as much of a thinker and more like a doer...

I personally think this is one of those visions that will be rather underwhelming. It will come down to illusion and deception that will allow Alivia to fake Rand's death. Her knowledge of the Power is almost absent, so I find it unlikely she will perform something unbelievable like swapping Rand's soul or the like, unless she learns something rapidly in AMOL.

On another note, I have to agree with Fionwe about Egwene. I honestly think she's a closer parallel to Rand than Nynaeve was. Nynaeve has been the wild card of the series since the beginning. She was the one who didn't want to leave, she couldn't channel properly and she's got the unique Talent of Healing. She's a furious woman who's chosen marriage and struggles with duty.

Egwene and Rand have far more parallels. They both left the village together and voluntarily and both started on parallel destinies centered around leadership. Both were tutored by the Aiel, and grew to become some of the most skilled channelers alive. They are both strong in all the Powers which is exceedingly rare. They share a common affliction based on incarceration - Rand is claustrophobic due to the red ajah and Egwene because she was damane. They are both headstrong etc etc... I've never thought of Nynaeve/Rand as a team even though they worked together often. A lot of that pairing was centered around Nynaeve's power and because Egwene was absent and doing other things, but that is over and I think we're going to see the true alliance blooming for the second book. Yes, Nynaeve is going to be there, but I think Egwene and Rand for the first time are going to become an enormously powerful team.

I also agree with Fionwe that Egwene will take a personal role in the Last Battle. She's never shirked away from conflict, and even before Mesaana she tried to fight Aginor and she used the Power as a weapon against Couladin much to Moiraine's disapproval. Things have changed - she is the Amyrlin now and that is possibly irresponsible, but at the same time its also irrelevant because she's a human being fighting for survival in the great battle of an age against extinction. I think both of these aspects will play out. She's going to sit on a distant hill surrounded by the Hall commanding her armies, but at some stage everything will go to hell (thanks to Demandred, of this I am sure), and she will lead them all down into the center of the fray to battle. I find it unlikely to impossible that she's going to be a remote general and figurehead while every other main character is fighting and dying. She won't die, but she's going to show us a display similar to the one against the Seanchan.

Egwene is Latra Posae to Rands LTT, to such an extent we needed an explicit authors statement to eliminate the theory she is Latra Reborn. Different person then, but a very similar role; the prospect of either of them linking with Rand then passing control to him so he could cleanse saidin is inconceivable. Nynaeve does self-sacrifice very well; Egwene is better with martyrdom. That makes each of them good parallels to Rand, but to different aspects of his character. It certainly does not say much for Egwene that she is more like pre- and Nynaeve more like post-epiphany Rand.

Incidentally, I not only do not recall any authors statement Egwene will not die, and still consider it somewhat likely she will. ;)

Also, the Arthurian parallels and abortive cover art argue Jordan did not mean to bait and switch on Rands death; Nicolas Foretelling pretty unambiguously states his mortally wounded body will be carried to Tar Valon just as Arthurs is in many versions of that legend. Fact is, Rand is already mortally wounded, twice over, surviving this long only because the respective sources of those wounds are trying to kill each other as energetically as him. The Many Worlds Hypothesis indisputably holds in Randland, but, although there are worlds where Rand fakes his death just as there are those where he is turned (yet the DO apparently remains bound; poor SOB literally CANNOT win) I do not believe the series represents either. I talk a lot about Jordan turning archetypes on their heads, but WoT is more about inverting than truly subverting tropes, altering rather than completely negating them. It is variations on a theme, not antithesis (the DO and Ishamael better represent the latter, hence they are the chief antagonists.)
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This message last edited by Joel on 11/05/2012 at 01:58:17 PM
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5021 Views
It's pretty damn cool. - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2670 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2797 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2774 Views
the pit of doom is hot - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2269 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2823 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2684 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2536 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 1988 Views
*NM* - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 1908 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2436 Views
I really like it - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2720 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2451 Views
something like this? - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3037 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2452 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2411 Views
Me, too! - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2517 Views
Well... - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2817 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2512 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2550 Views
Yeah... - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2465 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4054 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3210 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2599 Views
She is - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2704 Views
I don't know... - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2421 Views
Re: I don't know... - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2614 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2309 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2530 Views
What books have you been reading? - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2560 Views
I agree - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2666 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2621 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2320 Views
Agreed - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2427 Views
Exactly... - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2385 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2418 Views
- 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2347 Views
Re- - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2822 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2426 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2367 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2532 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2479 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2313 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2506 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2724 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2494 Views
Yeah... - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2507 Views
Re: Yeah... - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2542 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2458 Views
Look at their foreheads - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2556 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2508 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2341 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2494 Views
Idea - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2486 Views
Re: Idea - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2471 Views
Or.... - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2361 Views
This would explain the hidden hand - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2502 Views
That's a good point. - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2633 Views
Nah... - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2554 Views
Can you draw a blade - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2482 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2399 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1562 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2598 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2380 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2620 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2351 Views
I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. - 11/05/2012 01:35:34 PM 2499 Views
Re: I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. - 11/05/2012 04:06:50 PM 2286 Views
Egwene-Mat... - 11/05/2012 09:05:07 PM 2393 Views
Re: Egwene-Mat... - 12/05/2012 05:31:29 AM 2718 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2357 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2486 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 1930 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2302 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2429 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2581 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3411 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 1962 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2040 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2568 Views
No Maidens of the Spear - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2552 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2663 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1843 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2089 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 950 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2079 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2684 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2016 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 1953 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2465 Views
agreed - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2544 Views
Partially concur - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2324 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 904 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1398 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1356 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1178 Views

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