I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
Joel Send a noteboard - 11/05/2012 12:05:25 AM
Above all, she IS queen, by right and achievement. In referencing the feudal basis of serfs owing fealty to nobles, I notice you neglected to mention that feudal nobles owe the same fealty to the monarch on the same basis. Andor is not Elaynes sole obligation; she has numerous divided, often conflicting, additional loyalties to balance and reconcile. Perhaps that annuls her qualification to rule, but the only alternative not even more compromised is Ellorien, who supports Elayne as firmly as she opposed all suggestions she take the throne herself. All that said, while Elayne undoubtedly had the authority for her actions, she also had valid reasons for each of them, and most served, rather than undermined, Andors interests.
Not to personalize it, but I cannot help suspecting this (and your comments about literary feminism, though I concede Jordan overcompensates too often) is the crux of the problem: Not what Elayne did, but her cooperation with Egwene. To the limited extent I agree with you, it is that Egwene has too much influence with Elayne, but the Randland status quo requires all rulers consider the Amyrlins counsel even if they ultimately reject it, and Elayne has the unenviable, often conflicting, duties of both queen and Aes Sedai to harmonize as best she can. There is a reason no (known) Aes Sedai has ruled a country since the fall of Manetheren but, if Elayne could do worse for a model, Egwene is more likely to learn (the wrong lesson) from that disaster. Regardless, anyone (including you) who expected Elayne to repudiate (her fellow) Aes Sedai once crowned under- rather than overestimated her sense of duty and loyalty. As Aes Sedai AND queen, she lacks the luxury of treating those roles as mutually exclusive, even without an additional loyalty to her friend the Amyrlin, or the need all rulers share to maintain good relations with Tar Valon just as they must with all other great political powers.
First and foremost, let us be clear what happened there, and why: Elayne sought to ensure the Borderlanders did not invade and/or pillage Andor; once convinced they were only passing through, her concern became facilitating the "passing" at the expense of the "through," with minimal loss of life and property. Practically and technically, Elayne could not prevent an invasion (and thus, technically, act of war,) that had already occurred long before anyone in Caemlyn knew of it: Her task was to prevent an OCCUPATION and de facto war, then hasten a withdrawal.
She very expediently seized with both hands any pretext for doing so (incidentally ignoring the quarter million Borderlanders possible intentions toward the Dragon Reborn they abandoned the Blight border to seek.) In other words, rather than an imperious Aes Sedai trampling Andors sovereignty for her own ends, she used her Aes Sedai status to PROTECT Andor, adroitly avoiding the potential pitfalls of usurping royal authority yet unbestowed. Preventing a war as brutal and unwinnable as it would have been unnecessary is a dubious form of "treason," and claiming otherwise the kind of transparently disingenuous political ploy one would expect from her rivals for the throne. Acting as she did neatly transformed the Borderlanders presence from a military to diplomatic mission (as it should and would have been from the start, had they not acted unilaterally,) restoring rather than undermining Andors territorial sovereignty. Defending Andor and its citizens was her sole goal throughout, and she accomplishing it so well strong evidence she was the best potential queen.
Your rather ironic error here is in treating the spiritual city-state of Tar Valon as a "foreign power" rather than what it actually is: Along with the Whitecloaks, the closest thing Randland has to a church, which only INCIDENTALLY acquired temporal power to serve its spiritual and socio-political ends. More on that later....
Like I say, you are treating Elaynes duties as queen and Aes Sedai as mutually exclusive, and the White Tower as a wholly distinct "foreign power," rather than an international organization with members at senior levels of every government except Amadicia. It is not as simple as Elayne deciding whether she will serve the White Tower OR Andor; as queen of the latter and initiate of the former it cannot be: She must serve BOTH, finding a way to reconcile those duties when they are disharmonious. That should ultimately prove advantageous for Andor because, if the White Tower has strings tied to it, it has those in every nation; the difference is that, unlike those others, Andor also has a string tied to the TOWER, in the form of a strong Aes Sedai queen close to many of its leaders.
Meanwhile, this is not a case of Elayne abandoning Andor to run an errand for Egwene, taking the Andoran army with her: Virtually every head of state AND their army will be present at Merrilor. Elayne would be conspicuous by her absence if not among them, damaging Andors standing with Tar Valon, to the benefit of the other nations. This is a case of the Amyrlin calling world leaders, accompanied by their armies, to a council with the Dragon Reborn (which I do not believe will go as well for her as she expects.) She can do that because she is more than just Tar Valons head of state (though she is obviously that, too.) Likewise, Elayne is more than just Andors head of state; the implications of that for Tar Valons obligations TO Andor may not have dawned on Egwene yet, but anyone born and raised in Elaynes station would realize them instinctively.
Regardless, Elaynes duties to Andor do not abrogate her duties to the Tower, any more than either of those do her obligations of friendship with Rand or Mat, or her defensive feelings toward the Sea Folk. Elayne must rule in a manner consistent with White Tower principles, as surely as JFK was obligated to execute his congressional and presidential duties in a manner consistent with Roman Catholic principles (far more so; since Elayne is a full sister and JFK was merely a layman, she is fully conversant with and aware of the orders teachings.) Fortunately, that relationship is not as inherently antagonistic as you suggest; most of the time it is fairly harmonious, since the White Tower is not competing with Andor for political, military and economic supremacy (i.e. not a "foreign power."
Also once again, your hatred for Egwene is coloring your opinion of Elaynes interaction with her. It is not a given Elayne will side with her friend and Aes Sedai superior against the Dragon Reborn and her childrens father. Everyone Egwene took for granted as on her side has been unexpectedly tepid on the matter, even among her closest Aes Sedai confidants. Personally, I think Jordan intended Merrilor to spectacularly explode in Egwenes face (it almost must, since it is fairly clear Rand is correct and Egwene incorrect about the Seals) and begin her meteoric fall, culminating with a new Post-TG Amyrlin in the person of Logain Ablar, whom Min tells us is destined for great authority. If I had to bet, I would say she will be captured, turned (as foreshadowed in her Tower testing) and tearfully ripped to bloody shreds by one or more of her erstwhile friends, providing a highly emotional scene (and later references to it) that proves Jordan was not above killing major protagonists.
Some of the counterarguments have been cited already, by characters in the books, no less, because ELAYNE DID NOT MAKE THAT AGREEMENT, RAND DID! Elayne merely recognized a good idea and stole it, like a good ruler should (and speaking of rulers, the thing about fealty is, it is FEALTY; if it consisted doing solely what one wished it would not be much of a bond.) Elaynes "donation" to the Sea Folk puts Andor in a unique, almost monopolistic, situation similar to what Cairhien had with the Aiel until Lamans Sin. The Topless Towers of Cairhien were built with profits from that exclusive trade relationship; one can only guess what wonders Andor will construct with its profits from Sea Folk ceramics, rugs and spices, not to mention trade goods from Shara only available through the Sea Folk and Aiel (who trade with the Wetlands far less since the Aiel War.)
That is easily the biggest advantage, but Elayne has also gained a lever and link to the Sea Folk she can use on Andors behalf (particularly given her history with their Wavemistress and her Windfinder.) That status will only be enhanced by her already stated intention to protect them from the White Towers intrusion by deflecting Egwenes interest in "acquiring" Windfinders. With Sea Folk embassies in Andor, the Kin setting up shop there and the Black Towers presence, it is not hard to see how that will develop: Assuming channeling survives the Third Age, Andor could quickly assume all Tar Valons status without sacrificing any of its own (particularly if Tarmon Gaidon leaves the White Tower a burning ruin and its current Amyrlin deposed/dead.)
Those are better arguments, but for the most part we are talking about giving lands held by traitors in one kingdom to reformed traitors (or at least disloyal nobles) in another. Particularly in Cairhien (where, as you so helpfully note, nobles "commonly" abuse commoners already and plunged the nation into bloody civil war, with the traitorous nobles the worst of the lot) very little will change for the average daily plow-pusher. In many cases, they are not "losing" their "beloved" local lord/lady to Elayne, because said noble has an appointment with the headsman if anyone ever finds them anyway. The big change will be for the nobles, who will find themselves strangers in a strange land, without the power base they relied on to contest the throne in their native one, and forced by circumstances to support Elayne, at least until they establish a new powerbase (which will not happen quickly since most know no means of ingratiating themselves with peasants except naked unreliable bribery.)
Ultimately, there are two critical differences between Elaynes authority in Cairhien and Rands: Elaynes is permanent authority by right of heredity, while Rands was the temporary authority of a peace-keeping occupation/defense. Consequently, even if Rand HAD installed new lords in Cairhien, he was not sticking around to ensure they responsibly met obligations to subjects or lose their newly gained lands (i.e. he was not assuming the monarchy.) Elayne is doing PRECISELY that (much of her objective is clearly to neutralize the nobles power to challenge her in their native lands,) and thus retains the power to rescind what she granted if the recipients do not demonstrate the merit to retain their new positions.
In the final analysis, once again, Elayne IS queen of both lands, in a much more absolutist than truly feudal way; her authority to award estates is beyond question. The question is whether the locals will be better or worse off for it, but the latter is almost impossible in most cases. Meanwhile, the nation (once Elayne formally takes the Cairhienin throne there will only truly be one, though possibly as something like Autria-Hungarys Dual Monarchy) and its queen gain the advantage of minimizing or eliminating myriad threats to stability, while speeding the newly united kingdoms integration. It is a win-win, as much for the nation and its subjects as for its monarch; the only losers are the treacherous nobles, but it is hard to argue anyone (ESPECIALLY those owing them fealty) has much sympathy for them.
She implies nothing; the Queen of Andor explicitly rules the Two Rivers, as assuredly as she does as the Four Kings or Caemlyn itself. Several generations of queens managed to forget that, to the point their Two Rivers subjects have as well, but it is no less an indisputable matter of fact and law for that. All Elayne did was formalize the de facto status quo of their local autonomy by virtue of someone she knows to be a strong, decent and loyal noble, with the added political advantage of his wife being third in line to the Saldaean throne (though if her father and Tenobia manage to get themselves killed that might get a bit sticky, since it is unclear who would be heir-apparent if Faile abdicated.) The issue of her sovereignty over the Two Rivers is favorably resolved, without infringing on their autonomy; the showdown between her and Perrin we all anticipated for half the series died with more of a whimper than a bang (ironically, Perrins showdown with her brother was more dramatic, though still anti-climactic, but that is Perrin in a nut shell: Excruciating prolonged suspense and drama culminating in a severely underwhelming conclusion.
) Elayne relinquished far more than she was obliged to (since she had no obligation to relinquish anything,) and it is hard to see why conceding a great deal of power that was hers by right, while retaining little more than nominal authority, is "abuse of power." If the US gave Guam a seat in Congress, would that be "abuse" also? 
Oh, Darlin is not so bad; he behaves far better than anyone expected prior to his little tete-a-tete with Rand in ACoS. Elayne is doing magnificently well though, and I cannot understand why people are so critical of her (not to say Jordan did not spend too much time on her baths and warddrobe, but that is not a failing in her as a character; most pregnant nobles likely indulge themselves periodically with what most of us would consider long baths.) Egwene... Egwene is Machiavellianly awful, but I suspect her days are numbered. However, just because you despise Elaynes friend is no reason to do a 180° on Elayne, who remains my second favorite character after Mat. She has just the right blend of pragmatist and romantic (unrealistically so in royalty, and one needs a far better opinion than I have of the White Tower to think they removed her pampering) which is on full display in her reign to this point.
I bring all of this up, because I find myself falling into a pattern once again, that usually involves me being called misogynistic because I criticize women with power (I’ll criticize an unjustly praised male ruler just as soon as RJ or B-Sand bloody well writes one) only this time with a character of whom I was one of the relatively few defenders. When it came to assessing Elayne, I have often felt like the voice of one crying in the wilderness in opposition to all too many who felt no need to examine her beyond applying the trope of “spoiled princess” and operating on the assumption that her actions and motivations were all covered by that prejudice. Now, with Elayne fully come into her own rule & authority and the latest book showing her amassing power beyond even what might have been expected earlier in the series, the typical corruption of power has begun to exert itself upon her, even as the author and many readers succumb to admiration of power and applaud each step she takes to consolidate her power toward absolutism. In order to stay true to my principles, such as the one that demands I call a spade a spade when any character starts abusing the moral principles I hold important, I have to turn on my previous support and put her in her place. For some readers, the line is seeing a character get raped, even when it is being portrayed as an evil act by an evil character. For me, it’s seeing a so-called hero be given a pass for tyranny. For a long time Egwene was the sole exemplar of that (along with the mainstays of the old regimes, like Siuan, Morgase, etc), as the male characters treated their power or authority as nothing more than an unwanted means to an urgent and immediate end, and earned what power they did gain through action or ancient prophecies (and thus servicing the traditions of the people he exercised authority over), rather than technicalities (i.e. abuse of the spirit of the law) or the intercession of an elite class.
Not to personalize it, but I cannot help suspecting this (and your comments about literary feminism, though I concede Jordan overcompensates too often) is the crux of the problem: Not what Elayne did, but her cooperation with Egwene. To the limited extent I agree with you, it is that Egwene has too much influence with Elayne, but the Randland status quo requires all rulers consider the Amyrlins counsel even if they ultimately reject it, and Elayne has the unenviable, often conflicting, duties of both queen and Aes Sedai to harmonize as best she can. There is a reason no (known) Aes Sedai has ruled a country since the fall of Manetheren but, if Elayne could do worse for a model, Egwene is more likely to learn (the wrong lesson) from that disaster. Regardless, anyone (including you) who expected Elayne to repudiate (her fellow) Aes Sedai once crowned under- rather than overestimated her sense of duty and loyalty. As Aes Sedai AND queen, she lacks the luxury of treating those roles as mutually exclusive, even without an additional loyalty to her friend the Amyrlin, or the need all rulers share to maintain good relations with Tar Valon just as they must with all other great political powers.
Now Elayne got off to a good start. She took the throne of Andor in accordance with tradition and law, and earned it through action as well, by making necessary preparations for the upcoming Last Battle which also stood her in good stead against would-be usurpers, whose own actions in attempting to take the throne proved their unworthiness to hold it. There were warning signs, but given the predominance of the Aes Sedai, it seemed that Elayne’s first real violation was one of those things that cannot be helped – she used her authority as an Aes Sedai to give permission for the combined armies of the Borderlands to pass through Andor, despite it being made explicitly clear that she had no authority to do so deriving from any Andoran law or practice. Rather, the only right she called upon in giving that permission were the privileges arrogantly and unlawfully usurped by the sisters and the Tower to do as they wished in defiance of the natural rights of people and states. Any decent patriot, especially as the faction of Andoran nobles which includes Ellorien has been portrayed, would NEVER be silenced by Elayne’s claiming such authority as she did to grant passage to a foreign army. Rather than subsiding as Ellorien does, a decent Andoran should have tried to execute Elayne as a traitor to Andor right then and there – by asserting the primacy of a foreign power over the sovereignty of their nation she HAS committed treason. The best defense here is that she was merely making excuses for a practical concern – not getting the country into a war it did not need to fight, against an adversary with urgent business elsewhere. Would that an Aes Sedai had been around to do the same with Germany and Belgium in 1914, and much of the horror of the 20th Century might have been averted. What is more, the undue power of the Aes Sedai is a de facto state of affairs which they can hardly be faulted for accepting.
First and foremost, let us be clear what happened there, and why: Elayne sought to ensure the Borderlanders did not invade and/or pillage Andor; once convinced they were only passing through, her concern became facilitating the "passing" at the expense of the "through," with minimal loss of life and property. Practically and technically, Elayne could not prevent an invasion (and thus, technically, act of war,) that had already occurred long before anyone in Caemlyn knew of it: Her task was to prevent an OCCUPATION and de facto war, then hasten a withdrawal.
She very expediently seized with both hands any pretext for doing so (incidentally ignoring the quarter million Borderlanders possible intentions toward the Dragon Reborn they abandoned the Blight border to seek.) In other words, rather than an imperious Aes Sedai trampling Andors sovereignty for her own ends, she used her Aes Sedai status to PROTECT Andor, adroitly avoiding the potential pitfalls of usurping royal authority yet unbestowed. Preventing a war as brutal and unwinnable as it would have been unnecessary is a dubious form of "treason," and claiming otherwise the kind of transparently disingenuous political ploy one would expect from her rivals for the throne. Acting as she did neatly transformed the Borderlanders presence from a military to diplomatic mission (as it should and would have been from the start, had they not acted unilaterally,) restoring rather than undermining Andors territorial sovereignty. Defending Andor and its citizens was her sole goal throughout, and she accomplishing it so well strong evidence she was the best potential queen.
Your rather ironic error here is in treating the spiritual city-state of Tar Valon as a "foreign power" rather than what it actually is: Along with the Whitecloaks, the closest thing Randland has to a church, which only INCIDENTALLY acquired temporal power to serve its spiritual and socio-political ends. More on that later....
But you can only violate principles in the name of practicality for so long before you get into trouble, and that is where Elayne goes wrong. By the end of ToM, she is in a position to be the most powerful ruler outside Seanchan and second to the Dragon Reborn. She rules two significant and powerful countries and has access to the highest levels of available military technology and working relationships with the two best trained and organized military bodies in the world, according to the BWB, the Children of the Light and the Band of the Red Hand. What is more, neither commander is ever likely to automatically side with the Aes Sedai against her. She even has begun an association with another channeling organization, which, given the commercial focus established at the outset, is almost certain to make it surpass the White Tower in efficiency and practical skill of the services provided. With the White Tower’s rules against sisters interfering with one another, plus the worldly power available to her, Elayne is in a unique position to defy the White Tower’s interference in her country’s affairs, and even expresses an intention to do so earlier in the series. Unfortunately, when it really, absolutely matters the most, when the White Tower moves to block the Dragon Reborn from carrying out his plan to face the Dark One, Elayne drops everything and leaves her country undefended to go to the aid of the Amyrlin Seat, blindly agreeing with an 18-year-old figurehead with absolutely no technical competence to pass judgment on the actions of a Pattern-guided prophesied savior, and who does not even offer an alternative plan or rational justification beyond “I want” for bringing absolutely EVERY soldier available to an argument, aside from inflating her own ego by proving that she can call upon those resources. Hopefully this will turn out to be a situation like the First Crusade where the soldiers shame their leaders into following the proper priorities, but it’s a pity that Elayne will apparently have to be one of them.
Okay, fine. Elayne was raised by an emotional woman who massively overcompensated for her own failure to become a sister by knuckling under to her Aes Sedai advisor. Between that mother and advisor, she had excessive loyalty to the Tower beaten into her along with the rest of her training as a ruler. We have to take that as a given, and make allowances, like Tuon/Fortuona’s attitude towards damane (which is a much more healthy one for her subjects – screw over 1.5% of the population for the protection of 97%, as opposed to screwing over the entire country on behalf of the agenda of an organization of less than 1,000 or so of the most wealthy and secure women in the world, many of whom were raised in inimical nations or cultures). On the other hand, we have her actions as a ruler and the limits she apparently will not shy away from violating in her efforts to extend that rule as far as possible.
Okay, fine. Elayne was raised by an emotional woman who massively overcompensated for her own failure to become a sister by knuckling under to her Aes Sedai advisor. Between that mother and advisor, she had excessive loyalty to the Tower beaten into her along with the rest of her training as a ruler. We have to take that as a given, and make allowances, like Tuon/Fortuona’s attitude towards damane (which is a much more healthy one for her subjects – screw over 1.5% of the population for the protection of 97%, as opposed to screwing over the entire country on behalf of the agenda of an organization of less than 1,000 or so of the most wealthy and secure women in the world, many of whom were raised in inimical nations or cultures). On the other hand, we have her actions as a ruler and the limits she apparently will not shy away from violating in her efforts to extend that rule as far as possible.
Like I say, you are treating Elaynes duties as queen and Aes Sedai as mutually exclusive, and the White Tower as a wholly distinct "foreign power," rather than an international organization with members at senior levels of every government except Amadicia. It is not as simple as Elayne deciding whether she will serve the White Tower OR Andor; as queen of the latter and initiate of the former it cannot be: She must serve BOTH, finding a way to reconcile those duties when they are disharmonious. That should ultimately prove advantageous for Andor because, if the White Tower has strings tied to it, it has those in every nation; the difference is that, unlike those others, Andor also has a string tied to the TOWER, in the form of a strong Aes Sedai queen close to many of its leaders.
Meanwhile, this is not a case of Elayne abandoning Andor to run an errand for Egwene, taking the Andoran army with her: Virtually every head of state AND their army will be present at Merrilor. Elayne would be conspicuous by her absence if not among them, damaging Andors standing with Tar Valon, to the benefit of the other nations. This is a case of the Amyrlin calling world leaders, accompanied by their armies, to a council with the Dragon Reborn (which I do not believe will go as well for her as she expects.) She can do that because she is more than just Tar Valons head of state (though she is obviously that, too.) Likewise, Elayne is more than just Andors head of state; the implications of that for Tar Valons obligations TO Andor may not have dawned on Egwene yet, but anyone born and raised in Elaynes station would realize them instinctively.
Regardless, Elaynes duties to Andor do not abrogate her duties to the Tower, any more than either of those do her obligations of friendship with Rand or Mat, or her defensive feelings toward the Sea Folk. Elayne must rule in a manner consistent with White Tower principles, as surely as JFK was obligated to execute his congressional and presidential duties in a manner consistent with Roman Catholic principles (far more so; since Elayne is a full sister and JFK was merely a layman, she is fully conversant with and aware of the orders teachings.) Fortunately, that relationship is not as inherently antagonistic as you suggest; most of the time it is fairly harmonious, since the White Tower is not competing with Andor for political, military and economic supremacy (i.e. not a "foreign power."
Also once again, your hatred for Egwene is coloring your opinion of Elaynes interaction with her. It is not a given Elayne will side with her friend and Aes Sedai superior against the Dragon Reborn and her childrens father. Everyone Egwene took for granted as on her side has been unexpectedly tepid on the matter, even among her closest Aes Sedai confidants. Personally, I think Jordan intended Merrilor to spectacularly explode in Egwenes face (it almost must, since it is fairly clear Rand is correct and Egwene incorrect about the Seals) and begin her meteoric fall, culminating with a new Post-TG Amyrlin in the person of Logain Ablar, whom Min tells us is destined for great authority. If I had to bet, I would say she will be captured, turned (as foreshadowed in her Tower testing) and tearfully ripped to bloody shreds by one or more of her erstwhile friends, providing a highly emotional scene (and later references to it) that proves Jordan was not above killing major protagonists.
In order to retain a means of power for her faction in her efforts to claim her throne, she surrenders territory to a foreign commercial power which will undoubtedly use that land and the accompanying benefits granted by the crown to gain advantages over Andoran traders and merchants. Andor reaps no ongoing benefit – the land went to pay for reinforcements for Elayne’s own campaign for the throne, said reinforcements having already departed Andor once her claim was secure – but this was an "acceptable" compromise that Andor is going to have to live with. Oh, and the people who happen to live on the land that now belongs to the Sea Folk? What do they have to say about this? They live in another country now, one governed by Sea Folk customs and practices which are obnoxious and upsetting in the eyes of every Andoran character exposed to them so far. "Yes, peasant scum, I hated having to live with them as my guests, when I had the upper hand. You will now have to live totally under their authority and rule. Their rules are strange to our people, they have scant respect for ignorance of those rules, and whip people who don't obey fast enough. Sucks to be you, but I'm the Queen, so you get to be Sea Folk subjects now, because I needed a temporary transportation advantage." Who cares if their families have been loyal subjects of Andor and have lived there for longer than there has been an Andor? And given the requirements for the donated land, the only suitable places are those on the border of Cairhien, Andor’s long-standing archenemy. These people are not backwater hicks removed from the problems and international affairs of Andor, they have had to be loyal in the face of military threats from Cairhien, and they are almost certainly involved or affected in some way by the river trade. This situation means that they both deserve the loyalty of the crown, and that their lives WILL be affected by the transfer of land, even if the Sea Folk make no changes in the day-to-day affairs of their new subjects and merely content themselves with new trade laws and tariffs.
Some of the counterarguments have been cited already, by characters in the books, no less, because ELAYNE DID NOT MAKE THAT AGREEMENT, RAND DID! Elayne merely recognized a good idea and stole it, like a good ruler should (and speaking of rulers, the thing about fealty is, it is FEALTY; if it consisted doing solely what one wished it would not be much of a bond.
) Elaynes "donation" to the Sea Folk puts Andor in a unique, almost monopolistic, situation similar to what Cairhien had with the Aiel until Lamans Sin. The Topless Towers of Cairhien were built with profits from that exclusive trade relationship; one can only guess what wonders Andor will construct with its profits from Sea Folk ceramics, rugs and spices, not to mention trade goods from Shara only available through the Sea Folk and Aiel (who trade with the Wetlands far less since the Aiel War.) That is easily the biggest advantage, but Elayne has also gained a lever and link to the Sea Folk she can use on Andors behalf (particularly given her history with their Wavemistress and her Windfinder.) That status will only be enhanced by her already stated intention to protect them from the White Towers intrusion by deflecting Egwenes interest in "acquiring" Windfinders. With Sea Folk embassies in Andor, the Kin setting up shop there and the Black Towers presence, it is not hard to see how that will develop: Assuming channeling survives the Third Age, Andor could quickly assume all Tar Valons status without sacrificing any of its own (particularly if Tarmon Gaidon leaves the White Tower a burning ruin and its current Amyrlin deposed/dead.)
Once again, this might be explained by the exigencies of her situation, but the fact is, of all the transfers of land and authority Elayne effects in her short reign, this is the one she appears to regret the most. You could say that in light of the urgency of Tarmon Gaidon, she had to make sure someone capable and on the right side won the throne of the largest country in the wetlands. But this is the one transaction she regrets, in spite of the urgency, while showing no remorse for others lacking that same immediacy. Later on, when it comes time to seize the throne of Cairhien, she makes the rise of a foreigner acceptable to the powers in Cairhien by trading land with the agitators against her rule. Once again, she is selling out her people for her ambitions. Maybe Elenia Sarand is a witch, maybe Arymilla Marne is an incompetent suzerain, but the men and women on their estates, and the lesser lords who do them fealty, do so for the same reasons as all those nice people who showed up in Caemlyn for Elayne in KoD. That same book shows that an incompetent or malicious overlord can be replaced by a more intelligent or reasonable heir in one generation, in the case of Sylvase Caeren. Only now, all the people who are as loyal to House Marne or Sarand as Elayne’s vassals have been to House Trakand, are now placed under the authority of Cairhienin asses whose singular common defining trait has been their disloyalty to Elayne and the Dragon Reborn, combined with a total lack of any sort of principles – whatever their reasons, they were willing to put them aside for increased riches. Either they opposed her for self-serving reasons, or they opposed her for good and admirable reasons, and sold out for increased estates in Andor. Which type of scumbag would YOU want to live under? It doesn’t matter, if you’re a loyal Andorman and a hardworking peasant who eschews political involvement – you just got handed over an aristocratic family from a nation infamous for their aristocrats’ arrogance and adherence to laws and practices that permit the mistreatment of commoners (many of those who opposed Rand in Cairhien did so because he repealed the laws permitting those abuses). But it’s okay, because it allows your queen to take on a whole new set of duties that will divert her from her birth-obligation to rule Andor!
Remember back in tFoH, when this was such a big issue? The Tairens who marched out under the Dragon Banner to rescue Cairhien from their own internal warfare and the chaos into which their leaders had delivered the nation, and to feed the destitute and starving Cairhienin peasants were portrayed as the villains for assuming they would get to reap the rewards of their mission by claiming new lands from Cairhien. Sure it’s avarice on their parts, but when you get right down to it, they would only be “stealing” those lands from rulers who had more than amply demonstrated their own unfitness to administer the lands and protect the inhabitants.
The whole concept on which the feudal aristocracy rests is that the nobles get to claim land and service and and a cut of the produce of the people who live on those lands, because they protect those people and those lands and provide for them in times of need. That's also how you get the idea of conquest - the incoming power proves his superior ability to militarily occupy those lands and thus claims the position of owner/protector. Objectively speaking, the Tairens had better proven their worth to hold those lands than the Cairhienin who held the pink slips.
Yet on the basic principle that people deserve to be ruled by their own countrymen, Rand forbids the Tairens to claim Cairhienin lands, and specifically rules that no one can claim such lands without marrying into a Cairhienin family. Only to have the God-Empress Elayne come along and start taking land and handing estates out to the worst Andoran nobles! As consolation prizes for losing the war against her! Do Dobraine, who went up against renegade Aiel and Elaida’s followers, not to mention rescuing prisoners from Cadsuane, or Semaradrid, who faced Sammael and his armies in obedience to Rand, get Andoran estates as their prizes? Do Lord Astoril who came out of retirement to support Rand & his steward in Tear (and whose daughter follows Perrin & Faile, and prospective son-in-law is one of the top generals of the Band of the Red Hand), or Tolmeran who followed Rand to Illian, or Rosanna who actually put her own ass on the line in combat, get any of those Cairhien prizes or consideration for the throne of Tear? No. That throne all goes to Darlin, who comes across as an aristocratic asshole when fighting Mat and opposes Rand because his ego was not properly stroked, and the plundered foreign estates go to the people who plotted to subvert Rand’s designated successor in Cairhien. There has been no talk of rewards for Dyelin or Conail or Catalyn or Branlet who followed Elayne when her cause was at its nadir. The rewards, the profits and the glory all goes to people who opposed or interfered with Rand or Elayne.
By the looks of it, the smart play in any crisis is refuse loyalty to the worthy side, hold back, preserve your strength and bargain for a big payoff to do your duty when it’s really important. Funny how Elayne has no problem recognizing that same principle and acting on it when it comes to mere commoner mercenaries. When Bakuvun asks for a reward for his critical intervention with a handful of men that saves the gate her enemies hoped to take by treachery, she blows him off on the grounds that he was just doing his job, and what he was already paid for. All he did was fight and bleed and lose friends when he could have made a fortune taking traitor’s gold with his colleagues; he did not hold back and be cautious and husband his own resources for a better bargaining position. Kind of like that original gang of Tairens who marched along with the High Lords Rand sent to Cairhien – they fought bandits and Cairhien renegades, and held the city against the Shaido, and then got sent down to hold the line against Sammael, face saidin in battle and hunt more Shaido in Illian. Meilan and Gueyam and Araconn might be the face of that group, but not every single Lord of the Land or lordling fighting beneath them was an irredeemable traitor or reprobate, or would not have been loyal to Rand given the chance. Or even if they are jerks, that does not mean they deserve the shaft, which was another principle expressed in tFoH when Nynaeve and Elayne repaid the smuggler for confiscating his cargo to make room for the refugees. Yet, they are all denied any recognition or profit from their service, while the malingerers are rewarded for selfish behavior and bribed to do what the others have already done. And since in this economy, land equals wealth which always equals power, those who were quick to answer the call and stay loyal from the first will find their own power diminished and their position weakened relative to their greedier and self-serving countrymen.
Elayne might deplore the extent to which the Great Game has taken root in Andor, but she is only furthering it, by rewarding disloyalty with profit and power and repaying loyalty with smiles, friendship and hollow words that will not turn away the knives from their backs when her enemies grow bold with their increased power, and seek to strike at rivals for her favor. You know that's coming too, because for craven & selfish types, even if they will support Rand or Elayne because that's who is giving out the rewards, their mindset will aim at the quickest way to power: kissing up to Rand or Elayne, the source of power and wealth. And there are two ways to rise in their favor, perform best in their service or see everyone else go down so you look better by comparison. Since they are already established as the type who would prefer not to do the hard work, they are probably going to trying backstabbing the real loyalists. And they have the wealth and resources to make life miserable for the Dobraines and Dyelins, now, thanks to Elayne's generosity!
Remember back in tFoH, when this was such a big issue? The Tairens who marched out under the Dragon Banner to rescue Cairhien from their own internal warfare and the chaos into which their leaders had delivered the nation, and to feed the destitute and starving Cairhienin peasants were portrayed as the villains for assuming they would get to reap the rewards of their mission by claiming new lands from Cairhien. Sure it’s avarice on their parts, but when you get right down to it, they would only be “stealing” those lands from rulers who had more than amply demonstrated their own unfitness to administer the lands and protect the inhabitants.
The whole concept on which the feudal aristocracy rests is that the nobles get to claim land and service and and a cut of the produce of the people who live on those lands, because they protect those people and those lands and provide for them in times of need. That's also how you get the idea of conquest - the incoming power proves his superior ability to militarily occupy those lands and thus claims the position of owner/protector. Objectively speaking, the Tairens had better proven their worth to hold those lands than the Cairhienin who held the pink slips.
Yet on the basic principle that people deserve to be ruled by their own countrymen, Rand forbids the Tairens to claim Cairhienin lands, and specifically rules that no one can claim such lands without marrying into a Cairhienin family. Only to have the God-Empress Elayne come along and start taking land and handing estates out to the worst Andoran nobles! As consolation prizes for losing the war against her! Do Dobraine, who went up against renegade Aiel and Elaida’s followers, not to mention rescuing prisoners from Cadsuane, or Semaradrid, who faced Sammael and his armies in obedience to Rand, get Andoran estates as their prizes? Do Lord Astoril who came out of retirement to support Rand & his steward in Tear (and whose daughter follows Perrin & Faile, and prospective son-in-law is one of the top generals of the Band of the Red Hand), or Tolmeran who followed Rand to Illian, or Rosanna who actually put her own ass on the line in combat, get any of those Cairhien prizes or consideration for the throne of Tear? No. That throne all goes to Darlin, who comes across as an aristocratic asshole when fighting Mat and opposes Rand because his ego was not properly stroked, and the plundered foreign estates go to the people who plotted to subvert Rand’s designated successor in Cairhien. There has been no talk of rewards for Dyelin or Conail or Catalyn or Branlet who followed Elayne when her cause was at its nadir. The rewards, the profits and the glory all goes to people who opposed or interfered with Rand or Elayne.
By the looks of it, the smart play in any crisis is refuse loyalty to the worthy side, hold back, preserve your strength and bargain for a big payoff to do your duty when it’s really important. Funny how Elayne has no problem recognizing that same principle and acting on it when it comes to mere commoner mercenaries. When Bakuvun asks for a reward for his critical intervention with a handful of men that saves the gate her enemies hoped to take by treachery, she blows him off on the grounds that he was just doing his job, and what he was already paid for. All he did was fight and bleed and lose friends when he could have made a fortune taking traitor’s gold with his colleagues; he did not hold back and be cautious and husband his own resources for a better bargaining position. Kind of like that original gang of Tairens who marched along with the High Lords Rand sent to Cairhien – they fought bandits and Cairhien renegades, and held the city against the Shaido, and then got sent down to hold the line against Sammael, face saidin in battle and hunt more Shaido in Illian. Meilan and Gueyam and Araconn might be the face of that group, but not every single Lord of the Land or lordling fighting beneath them was an irredeemable traitor or reprobate, or would not have been loyal to Rand given the chance. Or even if they are jerks, that does not mean they deserve the shaft, which was another principle expressed in tFoH when Nynaeve and Elayne repaid the smuggler for confiscating his cargo to make room for the refugees. Yet, they are all denied any recognition or profit from their service, while the malingerers are rewarded for selfish behavior and bribed to do what the others have already done. And since in this economy, land equals wealth which always equals power, those who were quick to answer the call and stay loyal from the first will find their own power diminished and their position weakened relative to their greedier and self-serving countrymen.
Elayne might deplore the extent to which the Great Game has taken root in Andor, but she is only furthering it, by rewarding disloyalty with profit and power and repaying loyalty with smiles, friendship and hollow words that will not turn away the knives from their backs when her enemies grow bold with their increased power, and seek to strike at rivals for her favor. You know that's coming too, because for craven & selfish types, even if they will support Rand or Elayne because that's who is giving out the rewards, their mindset will aim at the quickest way to power: kissing up to Rand or Elayne, the source of power and wealth. And there are two ways to rise in their favor, perform best in their service or see everyone else go down so you look better by comparison. Since they are already established as the type who would prefer not to do the hard work, they are probably going to trying backstabbing the real loyalists. And they have the wealth and resources to make life miserable for the Dobraines and Dyelins, now, thanks to Elayne's generosity!
Those are better arguments, but for the most part we are talking about giving lands held by traitors in one kingdom to reformed traitors (or at least disloyal nobles) in another. Particularly in Cairhien (where, as you so helpfully note, nobles "commonly" abuse commoners already and plunged the nation into bloody civil war, with the traitorous nobles the worst of the lot) very little will change for the average daily plow-pusher. In many cases, they are not "losing" their "beloved" local lord/lady to Elayne, because said noble has an appointment with the headsman if anyone ever finds them anyway. The big change will be for the nobles, who will find themselves strangers in a strange land, without the power base they relied on to contest the throne in their native one, and forced by circumstances to support Elayne, at least until they establish a new powerbase (which will not happen quickly since most know no means of ingratiating themselves with peasants except naked unreliable bribery.)
Ultimately, there are two critical differences between Elaynes authority in Cairhien and Rands: Elaynes is permanent authority by right of heredity, while Rands was the temporary authority of a peace-keeping occupation/defense. Consequently, even if Rand HAD installed new lords in Cairhien, he was not sticking around to ensure they responsibly met obligations to subjects or lose their newly gained lands (i.e. he was not assuming the monarchy.) Elayne is doing PRECISELY that (much of her objective is clearly to neutralize the nobles power to challenge her in their native lands,) and thus retains the power to rescind what she granted if the recipients do not demonstrate the merit to retain their new positions.
In the final analysis, once again, Elayne IS queen of both lands, in a much more absolutist than truly feudal way; her authority to award estates is beyond question. The question is whether the locals will be better or worse off for it, but the latter is almost impossible in most cases. Meanwhile, the nation (once Elayne formally takes the Cairhienin throne there will only truly be one, though possibly as something like Autria-Hungarys Dual Monarchy) and its queen gain the advantage of minimizing or eliminating myriad threats to stability, while speeding the newly united kingdoms integration. It is a win-win, as much for the nation and its subjects as for its monarch; the only losers are the treacherous nobles, but it is hard to argue anyone (ESPECIALLY those owing them fealty) has much sympathy for them.
And finally, we have the easiest offense to embrace, and also the easiest to overlook, thanks to the involvement of the PoV characters – Elayne’s usurpation of the Two Rivers. Because we have 11 books of her mostly behaving as a responsible ruler, and Perrin’s craven acquiescence from a sympathetic perspective, we shrug off the settlement and disposition of the Two Rivers like it’s a good compromise all around, but in reality, it is a compromise that should not have to be made. Elayne has no right to the Two Rivers, so a compromise that seems to acknowledge her right by pretending she is the one who authorized the arrangement is just as wrong in principle as an outright conquest. At least in the latter scenario, there would be a de facto basis for her rule.
All in all this Two Rivers stuff might seem like a moot point of semantics, since all Elayne does is codify what already exists in the Two Rivers and shut down the potential internal complications it could cause in Andor… but this is the same woman who tore down Rand’s banner and drove his people out of Caemlyn over a point of semantics. If Rand cannot say that he will give Elayne the throne of Andor, then Elayne has no right to make similarly empty statements implying her own rulership of the Two Rivers.
All in all this Two Rivers stuff might seem like a moot point of semantics, since all Elayne does is codify what already exists in the Two Rivers and shut down the potential internal complications it could cause in Andor… but this is the same woman who tore down Rand’s banner and drove his people out of Caemlyn over a point of semantics. If Rand cannot say that he will give Elayne the throne of Andor, then Elayne has no right to make similarly empty statements implying her own rulership of the Two Rivers.
She implies nothing; the Queen of Andor explicitly rules the Two Rivers, as assuredly as she does as the Four Kings or Caemlyn itself. Several generations of queens managed to forget that, to the point their Two Rivers subjects have as well, but it is no less an indisputable matter of fact and law for that. All Elayne did was formalize the de facto status quo of their local autonomy by virtue of someone she knows to be a strong, decent and loyal noble, with the added political advantage of his wife being third in line to the Saldaean throne (though if her father and Tenobia manage to get themselves killed that might get a bit sticky, since it is unclear who would be heir-apparent if Faile abdicated.) The issue of her sovereignty over the Two Rivers is favorably resolved, without infringing on their autonomy; the showdown between her and Perrin we all anticipated for half the series died with more of a whimper than a bang (ironically, Perrins showdown with her brother was more dramatic, though still anti-climactic, but that is Perrin in a nut shell: Excruciating prolonged suspense and drama culminating in a severely underwhelming conclusion.
) Elayne relinquished far more than she was obliged to (since she had no obligation to relinquish anything,) and it is hard to see why conceding a great deal of power that was hers by right, while retaining little more than nominal authority, is "abuse of power." If the US gave Guam a seat in Congress, would that be "abuse" also? Despite her actions indicating ideals and principles when she was acting to get power, Elayne's performance WITH power suggests she is turning into a typical proponent and propagator of Daes Dae'mar. Like so many others before her, she seems to have started out but good intentions, only to become captured by the system and carrying out the motions of what was done before. The faces may have changed, but Elayne, Egwene, and Darlin seem to demonstrate that it is NOT a new day in WoT.
Oh, Darlin is not so bad; he behaves far better than anyone expected prior to his little tete-a-tete with Rand in ACoS. Elayne is doing magnificently well though, and I cannot understand why people are so critical of her (not to say Jordan did not spend too much time on her baths and warddrobe, but that is not a failing in her as a character; most pregnant nobles likely indulge themselves periodically with what most of us would consider long baths.) Egwene... Egwene is Machiavellianly awful, but I suspect her days are numbered. However, just because you despise Elaynes friend is no reason to do a 180° on Elayne, who remains my second favorite character after Mat. She has just the right blend of pragmatist and romantic (unrealistically so in royalty, and one needs a far better opinion than I have of the White Tower to think they removed her pampering) which is on full display in her reign to this point.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 11/05/2012 at 12:13:17 AM
Bad Elayne! No biscuit!
- 18/02/2012 10:13:54 PM
2146 Views
You are assigning your 21st century view onto people with totally different circumstances
- 18/02/2012 11:33:56 PM
877 Views
You are assigning your knee-jerk assumptions to my post
- 19/02/2012 03:29:02 AM
880 Views
As per usual you choose to assume the people of WoT have your belief system when you comment on the
- 19/02/2012 05:31:57 PM
981 Views
It has nothing to do with a specific system of morality, but basic natural law.
- 19/02/2012 11:26:13 PM
1041 Views
Where were Mat and Rand when they found Domon? In a wilderness along the RIVER.
- 20/02/2012 12:40:38 AM
855 Views
Re: Where were Mat and Rand when they found Domon? In a wilderness along the RIVER.
- 22/02/2012 01:10:54 AM
996 Views
Just read the books. Including the BWB ... It spells it out for those who care to read.
- 22/02/2012 02:48:45 AM
827 Views
The Queen of Andor lost all authority over the Two Rivers when she failed to protect it. *NM*
- 25/03/2012 02:53:23 PM
437 Views
Which is why they elected their own lord
- 25/03/2012 06:25:31 PM
787 Views
Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
- 18/02/2012 11:44:19 PM
1144 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
- 20/02/2012 03:11:14 AM
1237 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
- 20/02/2012 06:22:21 AM
789 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
- 22/02/2012 06:23:36 PM
935 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
- 22/02/2012 09:03:53 PM
881 Views
"Damn sister married the Pope instead of my chosen Lord Ohsoimportant"
- 25/03/2012 03:50:06 PM
933 Views
Okay, I admit it, there is no way I am reading such a long post about Elayne.....
- 19/02/2012 08:14:53 PM
832 Views
The Caraline treatment.
- 25/03/2012 02:41:12 PM
798 Views
Do you Colavaer Saighan? I don't recall Caraline having her lands and titles stripped
- 25/03/2012 10:44:57 PM
851 Views
I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
- 11/05/2012 12:05:25 AM
918 Views
Re: I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
- 11/05/2012 02:10:01 AM
906 Views
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Re: I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
- 24/05/2012 06:45:19 AM
926 Views
Generally, I think both her means AND ends were correct; reconciling them was the challenge.
- 30/05/2012 03:55:00 AM
28629 Views