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Re: Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah DomA Send a noteboard - 09/05/2012 03:57:11 PM
Without their Oaths they would have been able to give up real information even without putting them to The Question ... Vandene and Adeleas managed to squeeze Ispan, god only knows why they didn't Still her first too.


That's probably a stilling offense to still another Aes Sedai. They had only the word of "sisters" unbound by the Oath as evidence the woman was BA. Not that they doubted the girls, but it's still a little thin to take such radical unlawful measures. And no one knew severing neutralized the Oaths anyway.

But Vandene and Adeleas did put Ispan to the question, it was massively implied. What they did was probably fairly soft, compared to the Questionners or Seekers, but they no doubt went as far as Tower Law and their Oaths left them room to wriggle. And they got nothing useful out of Ispan. Nothing at all.





Had that oath been removed Vandene and Adeleas would have gotten every scrap of information she had out of her. The Tower has very specific laws around putting initiatives to the Question, which given it's WOT, would likely supersede any national laws. Elayne could have easily slipped around Andoran law ith the AS in her possession and used whatever methods Vandene and Adeleas used on Ispan to get what she needed ... If she had Stilled them. Egwene would have let this slide since she knew first hand what these women were.

Legal or not I'm surprised Elayne didn't at least think of it


There was a POV of Elayne earlier that explains why she wouldn't do that. She thinks somethign along the line of "If the Queen starts breaking her own laws, justice itself dies". For Elayne it's a pretty fundamental principle.

Sylvase did try to tempt Elayne into using Lounalt's services (it suggests Sylvase was indeed a DF trying to get access to the dungeons for Lounalt, unless Lounalt planted that in his head but unlike Sylvase he shouldn't have known about the prisoners at that point), Elayne brushed it off as a dangerous path. Some thought it was foreshadowing Elayne would give in (like some thought Nynave would go wild on Semirhage and break her, totally forgetting Rand's moral stance on torture. Nynaeve pretty much stood aside and let Cadsuane deal with it in the end), but Elayne of course is now Queen and didn't even return to that topic.

It's also a line RJ tended to want the Light's characters not to cross, and when they did the price could be heavy (both Adeleas and Vandene died, breaking Ronde Macura had unforeseen consequences etc.), usually the heavier the less restrained or digusted with themselves the Lightsiders who use torture were (and the "wronger" they smell to Perrin's nose). He even made it the last moral straws Rand held to, the last line he wouldn't cross (he made his moral stance on torture in Tear early on, making it illegal. He never wavered, not even against Semirhage. Toward the end he became really cruel and sacrificed people without blinking, but he didn't torture) and made it the moral breaking point for Perrin, who decided now he hated his axe after using it for torture. It's also the act that so horrified Aram he started listening to Masema.
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Elayne - 02/05/2012 11:36:52 PM 1633 Views
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Re: Elayne - 03/05/2012 02:36:14 PM 753 Views
Re: Elayne - 03/05/2012 02:47:58 PM 901 Views
Yes, I posted a proposition with that solution years ago. - 06/05/2012 07:25:55 PM 778 Views
With the new healing technology - 07/05/2012 12:08:50 AM 773 Views
So it's better to not bother?! At least by stilling, you force them to make the effort. - 08/05/2012 06:53:17 AM 3197 Views
Although... - 08/05/2012 08:14:55 AM 657 Views
Not to mention that Elayne KNOWS that Stilling them would also have broken their Oaths - 08/05/2012 01:11:31 PM 686 Views
Tower Law is very strict - 08/05/2012 02:12:36 PM 723 Views
See DomA's thoughts below ... - 08/05/2012 11:26:43 PM 799 Views
Not that much - 08/05/2012 10:07:24 PM 720 Views
Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means - 08/05/2012 11:26:13 PM 747 Views
Re: Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means - 09/05/2012 01:24:41 AM 701 Views
Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah - 09/05/2012 12:32:45 PM 839 Views
Re: Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah - 09/05/2012 03:57:11 PM 932 Views
Torture in WoT - 09/05/2012 05:37:37 AM 856 Views
Huh? - 09/05/2012 03:24:25 PM 747 Views
Many times Elayne remarks on obeying the law - 07/05/2012 06:31:58 PM 702 Views
Re: Many times Elayne remarks on obeying the law - 08/05/2012 10:22:48 PM 784 Views
Re: Elayne - 03/05/2012 03:38:15 PM 1040 Views
The timeline of ToM is messed up... - 03/05/2012 04:43:22 PM 829 Views
Re: Elayne - 03/05/2012 03:38:18 PM 957 Views
Yes, too bad the viewing was wrong and she died...oh, wait.... - 06/05/2012 07:34:43 PM 921 Views
I agree - 07/05/2012 02:25:06 AM 911 Views
Elayne sharing the invasion news... - 07/05/2012 03:38:57 PM 718 Views
I forgot that, thanks - 07/05/2012 05:20:25 PM 842 Views
I don't know that we agree about Elayne... - 08/05/2012 06:40:56 AM 833 Views
Actually, I think we do on most a lot of points - 08/05/2012 08:53:43 PM 723 Views
Re: Actually, I think we do on most a lot of points - 08/05/2012 09:18:01 PM 692 Views
Agree with all of that. Some points to consider... - 09/05/2012 05:45:24 AM 758 Views
Re: Agree with all of that. Some points to consider... - 09/05/2012 09:48:28 PM 813 Views

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