Agree with all of that. Some points to consider...
fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 09/05/2012 05:45:24 AM
Re: a possible Egwene-Elayne conflict-
"But Elayne is an Aes Sedai, Mother," Seaine said, rising, face troubled. "Surely you can keep her in line."
"Perhaps," Egwene said, speaking softly.
Now, this can be taken either ways. Either Egwene, given the theme of her next statement about not being able to control everything except by being a tyrant, is saying that she can't completely control Elayne. Alternatively, she's saying that she wants to, but given how well she knows Elayne's character, she doubts how successful she'll be. One way or another, this may be a hint of a conflict between them.
On the other hand, Egwene herself sees no issues with Aes Sedai doing things for commercial gain. She had no problems with them making cuendillar, after all.
From there, it is only a step away from saying the Kin can sell their services to those who pay them best, so long as they keep to Tower Law, and also don't use the OP as a weapon or for coercion.
And hopefully, Egwene will soon come out from Siuan's wings on the idiotic Oaths issue and go back to her old position that the Oaths make no sense. Especially now that Accepted are soon going to see that Wise Ones and Windfinders are perfectly respected and responsible without Oaths. Add in Rand possibly revealing the Rod was used on criminals, and I think Egwene will soon be able to banish the Oaths completely, and make the distinction between Aes Sedai and Kin vanish.
From there, it is only a short step (a very short one for Egwene, who seems to have no respect for the Aes Sedai way of ranking with the Power at all. Nynaeve will only add to this) to decide that OP strength doesn't matter to Aes Sedai. She'd be a fool not to change that rule anyway. Weak Accepted will soon start seeing joining the WO and the WF as preferable alternatives to being bottom rung Aes Sedai...
And once every woman can be Aes Sedai, and given Traveling, and given Egwene's own decision to include grandmothers among Novices, its a short step to Aes Sedai starting families, and selling their services for profit. How are the Aes Sedai ever going to sell to the thousands of new Novices that marriage is a bad idea when the great Amyrlin herself, who's already legendary, gets married soon? The fact that Egwene gets married to a handsome prince is only going to make Novices dream harder of being powerful Aes Sedai with their Prince Warders, living a happy life. And there's Elayne and Nynaeve, both married or soon to be, both playing major roles in the Last Battle and entering Aes Sedai legends quickly. Ad Moiraine marrying Thom and Siuan marrying Bryne, and the Tower's greatest living role models will all be married women, save Cadsuane.
What I'm seeing here is a lot of elements carefully placed and split among the three wondergirls that, if they come together correctly, can quickly cause major changes in the Aes Sedai. Their worst flaws and habits won't vanish, but the most hidebound sisters will soon be massively outnumbered (since Egwene is quickly raising any Novice and Accepted strong enough to be raised, meaning the crop of non-indroctinated Aes Sedai is suddenly going to expand from three to hundreds), making it that much easier for the most startling of changes to be accepted.
And with Romanda's PoV in KoD, RJ even hinted that the most traditional of sisters might not be able to more than grumble as the carpet is yanked from beneath them. Sharina is likely already Aes Sedai (given that Nicola got made Accepted), and I guarantee she'll be enormously influential. So will Nynaeve, and the latest crop of Aes Sedai all come from a generation of Novices who are deeply loyal to Egwene. She's going to have a lot of political leeway to make drastic changes (including maybe enforcing Gawyn's suggestion of making all sisters take Warders), and based on ToM, she'll likely have Nynaeve (and probably Elayne) pressuring her to make them.
In fact, it would be a thematically powerful statement to have the Aes Sedai literally leave their ivory tower, end their isolation, and begin to live life just before they go to defend their right to do so against the Dark One. It would also be a symbolic parallel of Rand telling Naeff to spread to message that the Asha'man are not just soldiers. And I think it was foreshadowed in tGS, when Egwene rose from her reverie from the Tinker's wagon, dressed in the Gown of the Amyrlin, only after she realized that life was about living:
Had she let herself lose sight of those things which were most precious? Why did she fight so hard to secure the White Tower? For power? For pride? Or because she felt it really was best for the world?
Was she going to suck herself dry as she fought this battle? She had chosen—or, would have chosen—the Green and not the Blue. The difference wasn't just that she liked the way the Greens stood up and fought; she thought that the Blues were too focused. Life was more complicated than a single cause. Life was about living. About dreaming, laughing and dancing.
Gawyn was in the Aes Sedai camp. She said that she'd chosen the Green for its aggressive determination—it was the Battle Ajah. But a more secret, more honest, part of herself admitted that Gawyn was a motivation for her decision as well. Among the Green Ajah, marrying one's Warder was common. Egwene would have Gawyn for her Warder. And her husband.
She loved him. She would bond him. Those desires of her heart were less important than the fate of the world, true, but they were still important.
Egwene rose from the steps as her dress transformed back into the white and silver gown of the Amyrlin. She took a step forward and let the world shift.
I think Egwene will literally shift the world when she takes this personal decision to live her life, and applies it to the Aes Sedai.
I'll go ahead and make a prediction. When the current rift with Rand is ended, and Logain (and Rand) and Egwene decide to fuse the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man, there'll probably be a speech from Egwene (and probably Rand too) about choosing to live, about choosing to trust their Brothers, about choosing to believe that the reunited Aes Sedai will no longer need to be bound. I think it will mark a high point for the Light before the shitstorm hits the fan, and everything descends into chaos. Only, the Aes Sedai, men and women both, will have something more than abstract concepts to fight for.
"But Elayne is an Aes Sedai, Mother," Seaine said, rising, face troubled. "Surely you can keep her in line."
"Perhaps," Egwene said, speaking softly.
Now, this can be taken either ways. Either Egwene, given the theme of her next statement about not being able to control everything except by being a tyrant, is saying that she can't completely control Elayne. Alternatively, she's saying that she wants to, but given how well she knows Elayne's character, she doubts how successful she'll be. One way or another, this may be a hint of a conflict between them.
On the other hand, Egwene herself sees no issues with Aes Sedai doing things for commercial gain. She had no problems with them making cuendillar, after all.
From there, it is only a step away from saying the Kin can sell their services to those who pay them best, so long as they keep to Tower Law, and also don't use the OP as a weapon or for coercion.
And hopefully, Egwene will soon come out from Siuan's wings on the idiotic Oaths issue and go back to her old position that the Oaths make no sense. Especially now that Accepted are soon going to see that Wise Ones and Windfinders are perfectly respected and responsible without Oaths. Add in Rand possibly revealing the Rod was used on criminals, and I think Egwene will soon be able to banish the Oaths completely, and make the distinction between Aes Sedai and Kin vanish.
From there, it is only a short step (a very short one for Egwene, who seems to have no respect for the Aes Sedai way of ranking with the Power at all. Nynaeve will only add to this) to decide that OP strength doesn't matter to Aes Sedai. She'd be a fool not to change that rule anyway. Weak Accepted will soon start seeing joining the WO and the WF as preferable alternatives to being bottom rung Aes Sedai...
And once every woman can be Aes Sedai, and given Traveling, and given Egwene's own decision to include grandmothers among Novices, its a short step to Aes Sedai starting families, and selling their services for profit. How are the Aes Sedai ever going to sell to the thousands of new Novices that marriage is a bad idea when the great Amyrlin herself, who's already legendary, gets married soon? The fact that Egwene gets married to a handsome prince is only going to make Novices dream harder of being powerful Aes Sedai with their Prince Warders, living a happy life. And there's Elayne and Nynaeve, both married or soon to be, both playing major roles in the Last Battle and entering Aes Sedai legends quickly. Ad Moiraine marrying Thom and Siuan marrying Bryne, and the Tower's greatest living role models will all be married women, save Cadsuane.
What I'm seeing here is a lot of elements carefully placed and split among the three wondergirls that, if they come together correctly, can quickly cause major changes in the Aes Sedai. Their worst flaws and habits won't vanish, but the most hidebound sisters will soon be massively outnumbered (since Egwene is quickly raising any Novice and Accepted strong enough to be raised, meaning the crop of non-indroctinated Aes Sedai is suddenly going to expand from three to hundreds), making it that much easier for the most startling of changes to be accepted.
And with Romanda's PoV in KoD, RJ even hinted that the most traditional of sisters might not be able to more than grumble as the carpet is yanked from beneath them. Sharina is likely already Aes Sedai (given that Nicola got made Accepted), and I guarantee she'll be enormously influential. So will Nynaeve, and the latest crop of Aes Sedai all come from a generation of Novices who are deeply loyal to Egwene. She's going to have a lot of political leeway to make drastic changes (including maybe enforcing Gawyn's suggestion of making all sisters take Warders), and based on ToM, she'll likely have Nynaeve (and probably Elayne) pressuring her to make them.
In fact, it would be a thematically powerful statement to have the Aes Sedai literally leave their ivory tower, end their isolation, and begin to live life just before they go to defend their right to do so against the Dark One. It would also be a symbolic parallel of Rand telling Naeff to spread to message that the Asha'man are not just soldiers. And I think it was foreshadowed in tGS, when Egwene rose from her reverie from the Tinker's wagon, dressed in the Gown of the Amyrlin, only after she realized that life was about living:
Had she let herself lose sight of those things which were most precious? Why did she fight so hard to secure the White Tower? For power? For pride? Or because she felt it really was best for the world?
Was she going to suck herself dry as she fought this battle? She had chosen—or, would have chosen—the Green and not the Blue. The difference wasn't just that she liked the way the Greens stood up and fought; she thought that the Blues were too focused. Life was more complicated than a single cause. Life was about living. About dreaming, laughing and dancing.
Gawyn was in the Aes Sedai camp. She said that she'd chosen the Green for its aggressive determination—it was the Battle Ajah. But a more secret, more honest, part of herself admitted that Gawyn was a motivation for her decision as well. Among the Green Ajah, marrying one's Warder was common. Egwene would have Gawyn for her Warder. And her husband.
She loved him. She would bond him. Those desires of her heart were less important than the fate of the world, true, but they were still important.
Egwene rose from the steps as her dress transformed back into the white and silver gown of the Amyrlin. She took a step forward and let the world shift.
I think Egwene will literally shift the world when she takes this personal decision to live her life, and applies it to the Aes Sedai.
I'll go ahead and make a prediction. When the current rift with Rand is ended, and Logain (and Rand) and Egwene decide to fuse the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man, there'll probably be a speech from Egwene (and probably Rand too) about choosing to live, about choosing to trust their Brothers, about choosing to believe that the reunited Aes Sedai will no longer need to be bound. I think it will mark a high point for the Light before the shitstorm hits the fan, and everything descends into chaos. Only, the Aes Sedai, men and women both, will have something more than abstract concepts to fight for.
Elayne
02/05/2012 11:36:52 PM
- 1633 Views
Re: Elayne
03/05/2012 02:36:14 PM
- 753 Views
Re: Elayne
03/05/2012 02:47:58 PM
- 901 Views
Yes, I posted a proposition with that solution years ago.
06/05/2012 07:25:55 PM
- 778 Views
With the new healing technology
07/05/2012 12:08:50 AM
- 773 Views
So it's better to not bother?! At least by stilling, you force them to make the effort.
08/05/2012 06:53:17 AM
- 3197 Views
Not to mention that Elayne KNOWS that Stilling them would also have broken their Oaths
08/05/2012 01:11:31 PM
- 685 Views
Not that much
08/05/2012 10:07:24 PM
- 720 Views
Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means
08/05/2012 11:26:13 PM
- 747 Views
Re: Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means
09/05/2012 01:24:41 AM
- 700 Views
Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah
09/05/2012 12:32:45 PM
- 839 Views
Re: Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah
09/05/2012 03:57:11 PM
- 931 Views
All true. Doesn't change the fact that had they Stilled these women they would have gotten
10/05/2012 01:35:42 PM
- 693 Views
Re: All true. Doesn't change the fact that had they Stilled these women they would have gotten
10/05/2012 08:02:20 PM
- 674 Views
Yes, too bad the viewing was wrong and she died...oh, wait....
06/05/2012 07:34:43 PM
- 921 Views
I agree
07/05/2012 02:25:06 AM
- 911 Views
I don't know that we agree about Elayne...
08/05/2012 06:40:56 AM
- 832 Views
Actually, I think we do on most a lot of points
08/05/2012 08:53:43 PM
- 723 Views
Agree with all of that. Some points to consider...
09/05/2012 05:45:24 AM
- 758 Views
Seriously, I haven't read any Elayne chapters since book 9/Winter's Heart.....
06/05/2012 08:01:05 PM
- 624 Views