Politically, I have an issue with her making political deals to gain herself another throne at the expense of the inhabitants and customs or traditions of two realms, not to mention in violation of a principle that was fairly important to be upheld in the middle books, and seemingly the reason for what loyalty Cairhien holds for Rand.
Anything Elayne does to ramp up the pressure on the Tower is to the good. Concentrating power, whether, financial, military, political or paranormal in one institution is completely abhorrent and improvident. Almost all channeling innovations or advances over the course of the series (and not coincidentally, the first significant innovations in centuries, if not millenia) have come from sources outside the White Tower, initiates with minimal exposure to the Tower's channeling dogma and indoctrination process or in response to contact with non-Tower channelers. Thus, any and all challenges to the Tower's authority and unity are to be applauded.
The original deal with the Sea Folk was only a bad thing to the personal power interests of Egwene, and the supremacy of the White Tower. Neither of those things is inherently desirable, so the major objection to the deal on those grounds is moot. All on its own, the deal is perfectly fair, as it gives the Sea Folk nothing more than the means to compete with the Tower on more reasonable terms. Sharing knowledge is only a problem if there is something wrong with the Sea Folk having the same level of knowledge as the Tower. The Tower is well-established for their underhanded means of getting their way and abuse of their influence to achieve politically desirable solutions, and the Sea Folk absolutely depend upon their channelers for survival. Unless they gain the ability to match the Aes Sedai with their channeling, they have to fear the loss of those channelers, and all the good intentions of Elayne and Egwene in that regard are of no practical use to them.
And it was a fair deal too, the only basis on which anyone can object to the deal is on the presumption that knowledge should be made freely available (in which case, why complain when that is all the Sea Folk are seeking) or on the presumption that no channeling group should be forced to give away their secrets(in which case, suck it up and solve your own drought problem, Aes Sedai). The Sea Folk were trading knowledge and expertise for more of the same. Since the Aes Sedai could offer no single weave or feat of comparable significance to the Sea Folk as their assistance with the Bowl of the Winds was to the not-so-wetlands, the Atha'an Miere were perfectly justified in asking for a broad range of expertise that all boils down to putting themselves on an even footing with the Tower, in order to assure nothing more than their own independence (every known portion of the bargain was aimed at getting access to that knowledge, and closing any loopholes of the sort the Aes Sedai are infamous for wriggling through to get out of paying their fair share). Their indifference to imposing themselves on others is well-established in the series, as is their fear of losing their Windfinders. According to Egwene herself, the most risible clause in the deal is the one permitting Sea Folk sisters to quit and go home! So much for the argument that the Tower is morally superior to the Seanchan because they don't enslave channelers...
Egwene's subsequent deal, while advantageous for the Tower will hurt the world and channeling as well, since it allows opportunities for the Tower to tempt away would-be Wise Ones and Windfinders with lucre and comforts, while offering in return the other groups nothing more than the chance to recruit foreigners to the service of the harsh environment and strict discipline of their own groups, and service to an alien nation. For every would-be Accepted with Peace-corps/doctors without borders type ideals, there are going to whole lot of channelers lured away from their home cultures to a lifestyle of wealth, comfort, privilege and a less extreme amount of water than they are used to. They will be offered the chance to trade a life of service to their people for one of social superiority, under the guise of serving a cause and ideals and the whole world. The Malkieri sisters who lost a homeland could tell you how good that tradeoff really is, and the benefit of the few channelers the Wise Ones or Sea Folk pick up on the exchange is shaded by the recollection of Shaiel, who, despite her efforts and seeming success at adopting the ways of a new people, ultimately failed to follow through with ji'e'toh and cost the Aiel the affection of their Car'a'carn.
My only complaint with Elayne's political actions regarding channeling is the extreme likelihood of her folding her hands and bowing her head meekly to Egwene's remonstrations, when by throwing up challenges to Egwene's & the Tower's supremacy, she is actually doing the world one of the greatest long-term services of her career, which already includes the rediscovery of ter'angreal and being the sine qua non of saving the world from the Dark One with the Bowl of the Winds, not to mention whatever part the bond she devised for the Dragon Reborn will play in days to come.
Anything Elayne does to ramp up the pressure on the Tower is to the good. Concentrating power, whether, financial, military, political or paranormal in one institution is completely abhorrent and improvident. Almost all channeling innovations or advances over the course of the series (and not coincidentally, the first significant innovations in centuries, if not millenia) have come from sources outside the White Tower, initiates with minimal exposure to the Tower's channeling dogma and indoctrination process or in response to contact with non-Tower channelers. Thus, any and all challenges to the Tower's authority and unity are to be applauded.
The original deal with the Sea Folk was only a bad thing to the personal power interests of Egwene, and the supremacy of the White Tower. Neither of those things is inherently desirable, so the major objection to the deal on those grounds is moot. All on its own, the deal is perfectly fair, as it gives the Sea Folk nothing more than the means to compete with the Tower on more reasonable terms. Sharing knowledge is only a problem if there is something wrong with the Sea Folk having the same level of knowledge as the Tower. The Tower is well-established for their underhanded means of getting their way and abuse of their influence to achieve politically desirable solutions, and the Sea Folk absolutely depend upon their channelers for survival. Unless they gain the ability to match the Aes Sedai with their channeling, they have to fear the loss of those channelers, and all the good intentions of Elayne and Egwene in that regard are of no practical use to them.
And it was a fair deal too, the only basis on which anyone can object to the deal is on the presumption that knowledge should be made freely available (in which case, why complain when that is all the Sea Folk are seeking) or on the presumption that no channeling group should be forced to give away their secrets(in which case, suck it up and solve your own drought problem, Aes Sedai). The Sea Folk were trading knowledge and expertise for more of the same. Since the Aes Sedai could offer no single weave or feat of comparable significance to the Sea Folk as their assistance with the Bowl of the Winds was to the not-so-wetlands, the Atha'an Miere were perfectly justified in asking for a broad range of expertise that all boils down to putting themselves on an even footing with the Tower, in order to assure nothing more than their own independence (every known portion of the bargain was aimed at getting access to that knowledge, and closing any loopholes of the sort the Aes Sedai are infamous for wriggling through to get out of paying their fair share). Their indifference to imposing themselves on others is well-established in the series, as is their fear of losing their Windfinders. According to Egwene herself, the most risible clause in the deal is the one permitting Sea Folk sisters to quit and go home! So much for the argument that the Tower is morally superior to the Seanchan because they don't enslave channelers...
Egwene's subsequent deal, while advantageous for the Tower will hurt the world and channeling as well, since it allows opportunities for the Tower to tempt away would-be Wise Ones and Windfinders with lucre and comforts, while offering in return the other groups nothing more than the chance to recruit foreigners to the service of the harsh environment and strict discipline of their own groups, and service to an alien nation. For every would-be Accepted with Peace-corps/doctors without borders type ideals, there are going to whole lot of channelers lured away from their home cultures to a lifestyle of wealth, comfort, privilege and a less extreme amount of water than they are used to. They will be offered the chance to trade a life of service to their people for one of social superiority, under the guise of serving a cause and ideals and the whole world. The Malkieri sisters who lost a homeland could tell you how good that tradeoff really is, and the benefit of the few channelers the Wise Ones or Sea Folk pick up on the exchange is shaded by the recollection of Shaiel, who, despite her efforts and seeming success at adopting the ways of a new people, ultimately failed to follow through with ji'e'toh and cost the Aiel the affection of their Car'a'carn.
My only complaint with Elayne's political actions regarding channeling is the extreme likelihood of her folding her hands and bowing her head meekly to Egwene's remonstrations, when by throwing up challenges to Egwene's & the Tower's supremacy, she is actually doing the world one of the greatest long-term services of her career, which already includes the rediscovery of ter'angreal and being the sine qua non of saving the world from the Dark One with the Bowl of the Winds, not to mention whatever part the bond she devised for the Dragon Reborn will play in days to come.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
Elayne
02/05/2012 11:36:52 PM
- 1628 Views
Re: Elayne
03/05/2012 02:36:14 PM
- 745 Views
Re: Elayne
03/05/2012 02:47:58 PM
- 896 Views
Yes, I posted a proposition with that solution years ago.
06/05/2012 07:25:55 PM
- 765 Views
With the new healing technology
07/05/2012 12:08:50 AM
- 770 Views
So it's better to not bother?! At least by stilling, you force them to make the effort.
08/05/2012 06:53:17 AM
- 3188 Views
Not to mention that Elayne KNOWS that Stilling them would also have broken their Oaths
08/05/2012 01:11:31 PM
- 683 Views
Not that much
08/05/2012 10:07:24 PM
- 712 Views
Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means
08/05/2012 11:26:13 PM
- 740 Views
Re: Sorry, meant she could have more effectively questioned them in "normal" means
09/05/2012 01:24:41 AM
- 694 Views
Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah
09/05/2012 12:32:45 PM
- 832 Views
Re: Ispan was still bound by her oath to not betray the Black Ajah
09/05/2012 03:57:11 PM
- 925 Views
All true. Doesn't change the fact that had they Stilled these women they would have gotten
10/05/2012 01:35:42 PM
- 686 Views
Re: All true. Doesn't change the fact that had they Stilled these women they would have gotten
10/05/2012 08:02:20 PM
- 673 Views
Yes, too bad the viewing was wrong and she died...oh, wait....
06/05/2012 07:34:43 PM
- 917 Views
I agree
07/05/2012 02:25:06 AM
- 906 Views
I don't know that we agree about Elayne...
08/05/2012 06:40:56 AM
- 824 Views
Actually, I think we do on most a lot of points
08/05/2012 08:53:43 PM
- 718 Views
Seriously, I haven't read any Elayne chapters since book 9/Winter's Heart.....
06/05/2012 08:01:05 PM
- 620 Views