Cadsuane will die before showing up at Rand's side at the Merrilor meeting? The odds are agains that, I would say.
I don't agree that symbolism would work. It has played out and much more meaningful when Egwene pushed Siuan aside, and when she truly took control of the reunited Hall.
Cadsuane as I see her is hardly representative of the "old style" Aes Sedai. She is unique and as atypical as it gets. Romanda, Lelaine, Siuan Sanche are some of the sisters far more representative of the "old style AS". Cadsuane is an older Moiraine or Nynaeve, very excentric and "problematic" to WT standards. She is more experienced than Moiraine and even more Nynaeve, but her thinking isn't more old-fashioned than theirs. She was absolutely right not to treat Nynaeve as a full sister. By forcing Nynaeve to take the test, Egwene proved Cadsuane right. Nynaeve's OP training was lacking in all areas but healing, and she just didn't have the self-control expected of an Aes Sedai. Now she has it - she's grown massively since she's met Cadsuane (I'm not implying she owes it to Cadsuane, but it's been a long time since Nynaeve had a genuine role model to rebel against rather than play the Wisdom)
Though she does have her blind spots for sure, she's doesn't have and old person's attitude or conservatism. She's still razor sharp and isn't afraid of change, and her strength of will is as strong as ever. On a lot of points, the only thing holding her back from going on with her life (eg: taking a new warder and so on) is her own belief that she's very near the end of her life. But that just isn't true. She's but middle-aged if she renounces the Binding, and yet she's also the woman who won't stand easily with Egwene's requirement that anyone who does must forsake her AS status and retire, when the women are but middle-aged!
I'm not saying Cadsuane won't die, but I think the foreshadowing can equally be interpreted in conflicting ways. Mentions of her death have come so often it could be foreshadowing that soon there will be a time when it's no longer just someone thinking she's dead. But in a way, that's weak. Don't forget, barely any(if any) mention of Cadsuane's death are about her dying a hero's death. Nearly all of them are rather forming a "running gag" about the fact she must have died of old age by now. Rand already told her she's not as old as she thinks she is, which came as a shock. It's perfectly possible the "running gag" foreshadows that Cadsuane won't die, that she will have to adjust to the fact she's got half of her life in front of her. What "kills" Cadsuane is to have been in retirement growing flowers. That's not living, to her standards - she can't bear being useless and irrelevant. She looked for any excuse to get back in the action and remain purposeful. I hardly imagine she'll seek to go out in a blaze of glory. She's just not the type, she no doubt had tons of opportunities to play the daredevil and go out as a hero. She's a survivor who calculates the risks she takes and get out of battles alive.
Cadsuane has seen more action and danger than most or all Green sister alive. And yet, she's survived all of that. She is clearly not a daredevil. Heroic yes, but not reckless. She's not Elayne or Alanna. If any Green have good odds of being clear-headed and experienced enough to survive TG if she has no bad luck or circumstances where self-sacrifice would be extremely meaningful, I'd place my bet on Cadsuane.
There's even the distinct possibility that now her role with Rand is done and most of the aftermath of her humbling mistake is dealt with and all, Cadsuane will at last occupy her rightful place, which would be as one of the top field generals of the Green Ajah, not as a foot soldier on the frontline. And we know she's good - she improvised Rand's defense and managed to hold all day against the Forsaken. Her weaves are outclassed, but Cadsuane absorb new knowledged thrown at her without blinking (as I said, she's not a conservative old woman, she adapts to changes really well). There isn't much about Egwene's leadership that Cadsuane wouldn't approve of; what Egwene did to the AS in TGS Cadsuane has wished she could have done to Elaida and the Rebels alike before...
Mat could even well be stuck with Cadsuane in his état-major soon. That would be hilarious and that would be the kind of irony Jordan liked so much, to get Mat stuck with the single most overbearing and strict Aes Sedai of them all, while if Cadsuane thought Rand ill-mannered and uncivil she's really up for a surprise if she ever meets or has to work with Mat...
Cadsuane, like Moiraine, is one of the sisters likely to place their weight behind Rand at Merrilor. Cadsuane and all her followers are also part of those Egwene still has to test with the Binder. Sooner than later, Cadsuane will have to spend time among AS if not necessarily in TV (Egwene might foresee they may need the Oath rod and bring it with her to Merrilor. The matter of testing the unproven AS from Rand's entourage or Logain's who may show up there might even create a opportunity for Rand to bring up what the Oath rod was really made for, incidentally. I can't see LTT having a high opinion of the Three Oaths full of holes either, nor would he ever agree with Siuan's notion that without the bound Three Oaths the AS wouldn't be Aes Sedai. There's no reason why Rand won't see this with the exact pespective of the Forsaken and as much contempt. They merely reflected their Age with their opinion, not their allegiance. He might also raise the point that the oath about making no weapon for men to kill another has served its purpose but constraining the sisters against that now, with a tool designed to hold criminals who can't be trusted to keep their oaths no less, would be the height of stupidity at this point, at least until TG is won). Of course the Binder may also become a major obstacle to the reunification of male and female AS. The WT will have a hard time convincing the former Asha'man they must cut their lifespan in two. If that Binder doesn't work on men, it would be a right pickle as well.
There's this possibility Merrilor sees the beginning of the end
for the practice to bind the sisters, or at least launches the debate.
It's been mentioned enough times that I would be surprised if she survives. In a very real way she represents the Aes Sedai of old ... Seems symbolic to me that she will pass the torch to the new Aes Sedai
I don't agree that symbolism would work. It has played out and much more meaningful when Egwene pushed Siuan aside, and when she truly took control of the reunited Hall.
Cadsuane as I see her is hardly representative of the "old style" Aes Sedai. She is unique and as atypical as it gets. Romanda, Lelaine, Siuan Sanche are some of the sisters far more representative of the "old style AS". Cadsuane is an older Moiraine or Nynaeve, very excentric and "problematic" to WT standards. She is more experienced than Moiraine and even more Nynaeve, but her thinking isn't more old-fashioned than theirs. She was absolutely right not to treat Nynaeve as a full sister. By forcing Nynaeve to take the test, Egwene proved Cadsuane right. Nynaeve's OP training was lacking in all areas but healing, and she just didn't have the self-control expected of an Aes Sedai. Now she has it - she's grown massively since she's met Cadsuane (I'm not implying she owes it to Cadsuane, but it's been a long time since Nynaeve had a genuine role model to rebel against rather than play the Wisdom)
Though she does have her blind spots for sure, she's doesn't have and old person's attitude or conservatism. She's still razor sharp and isn't afraid of change, and her strength of will is as strong as ever. On a lot of points, the only thing holding her back from going on with her life (eg: taking a new warder and so on) is her own belief that she's very near the end of her life. But that just isn't true. She's but middle-aged if she renounces the Binding, and yet she's also the woman who won't stand easily with Egwene's requirement that anyone who does must forsake her AS status and retire, when the women are but middle-aged!
I'm not saying Cadsuane won't die, but I think the foreshadowing can equally be interpreted in conflicting ways. Mentions of her death have come so often it could be foreshadowing that soon there will be a time when it's no longer just someone thinking she's dead. But in a way, that's weak. Don't forget, barely any(if any) mention of Cadsuane's death are about her dying a hero's death. Nearly all of them are rather forming a "running gag" about the fact she must have died of old age by now. Rand already told her she's not as old as she thinks she is, which came as a shock. It's perfectly possible the "running gag" foreshadows that Cadsuane won't die, that she will have to adjust to the fact she's got half of her life in front of her. What "kills" Cadsuane is to have been in retirement growing flowers. That's not living, to her standards - she can't bear being useless and irrelevant. She looked for any excuse to get back in the action and remain purposeful. I hardly imagine she'll seek to go out in a blaze of glory. She's just not the type, she no doubt had tons of opportunities to play the daredevil and go out as a hero. She's a survivor who calculates the risks she takes and get out of battles alive.
Cadsuane has seen more action and danger than most or all Green sister alive. And yet, she's survived all of that. She is clearly not a daredevil. Heroic yes, but not reckless. She's not Elayne or Alanna. If any Green have good odds of being clear-headed and experienced enough to survive TG if she has no bad luck or circumstances where self-sacrifice would be extremely meaningful, I'd place my bet on Cadsuane.
There's even the distinct possibility that now her role with Rand is done and most of the aftermath of her humbling mistake is dealt with and all, Cadsuane will at last occupy her rightful place, which would be as one of the top field generals of the Green Ajah, not as a foot soldier on the frontline. And we know she's good - she improvised Rand's defense and managed to hold all day against the Forsaken. Her weaves are outclassed, but Cadsuane absorb new knowledged thrown at her without blinking (as I said, she's not a conservative old woman, she adapts to changes really well). There isn't much about Egwene's leadership that Cadsuane wouldn't approve of; what Egwene did to the AS in TGS Cadsuane has wished she could have done to Elaida and the Rebels alike before...
Mat could even well be stuck with Cadsuane in his état-major soon. That would be hilarious and that would be the kind of irony Jordan liked so much, to get Mat stuck with the single most overbearing and strict Aes Sedai of them all, while if Cadsuane thought Rand ill-mannered and uncivil she's really up for a surprise if she ever meets or has to work with Mat...
Cadsuane, like Moiraine, is one of the sisters likely to place their weight behind Rand at Merrilor. Cadsuane and all her followers are also part of those Egwene still has to test with the Binder. Sooner than later, Cadsuane will have to spend time among AS if not necessarily in TV (Egwene might foresee they may need the Oath rod and bring it with her to Merrilor. The matter of testing the unproven AS from Rand's entourage or Logain's who may show up there might even create a opportunity for Rand to bring up what the Oath rod was really made for, incidentally. I can't see LTT having a high opinion of the Three Oaths full of holes either, nor would he ever agree with Siuan's notion that without the bound Three Oaths the AS wouldn't be Aes Sedai. There's no reason why Rand won't see this with the exact pespective of the Forsaken and as much contempt. They merely reflected their Age with their opinion, not their allegiance. He might also raise the point that the oath about making no weapon for men to kill another has served its purpose but constraining the sisters against that now, with a tool designed to hold criminals who can't be trusted to keep their oaths no less, would be the height of stupidity at this point, at least until TG is won). Of course the Binder may also become a major obstacle to the reunification of male and female AS. The WT will have a hard time convincing the former Asha'man they must cut their lifespan in two. If that Binder doesn't work on men, it would be a right pickle as well.
There's this possibility Merrilor sees the beginning of the end
for the practice to bind the sisters, or at least launches the debate.
This message last edited by DomA on 30/04/2012 at 09:05:19 PM
Very interesting QA with Brandon
20/04/2012 11:19:02 PM
- 2878 Views
I found it painful to read
21/04/2012 09:53:31 AM
- 1098 Views
Agreed ... He got some softball questions here and couldn't answer them ... But there is a lot
22/04/2012 04:26:27 AM
- 936 Views
Re: Agreed ... He got some softball questions here and couldn't answer them ... But there is a lot
22/04/2012 08:06:38 AM
- 1010 Views
Re: Agreed ... He got some softball questions here and couldn't answer them ... But there is a lot
22/04/2012 02:39:41 PM
- 942 Views
Re: Very interesting QA with Brandon
22/04/2012 02:53:38 AM
- 1022 Views
This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
23/04/2012 09:50:51 AM
- 1269 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
23/04/2012 02:39:30 PM
- 1034 Views
I think you may be giving RJ more credit than his due here
24/04/2012 10:35:28 PM
- 1030 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
24/04/2012 05:46:03 AM
- 955 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
24/04/2012 08:10:15 AM
- 1025 Views
It's got little to do with obsession...
25/04/2012 01:20:48 AM
- 943 Views
Re: It's got little to do with obsession...
25/04/2012 05:05:40 PM
- 959 Views
Re: It's got little to do with obsession...
27/04/2012 12:58:36 AM
- 884 Views
Question about TGS and ToM:
27/04/2012 02:20:34 AM
- 865 Views
Very similar to you
27/04/2012 09:50:52 PM
- 968 Views
Are there plans for rewrites / reordering of the books?
29/04/2012 01:17:48 PM
- 931 Views
of course there's no plan
30/04/2012 06:15:49 AM
- 1293 Views
Egwene...
27/04/2012 05:41:13 AM
- 892 Views
Re: Egwene...
27/04/2012 09:30:32 PM
- 887 Views
Re: Egwene...
28/04/2012 09:44:43 AM
- 865 Views
I don't find it all that surprising
28/04/2012 03:56:41 PM
- 812 Views
Re: I don't find it all that surprising
29/04/2012 08:07:55 AM
- 825 Views
Re: I don't find it all that surprising
30/04/2012 07:54:14 AM
- 742 Views
I suspect Cadsuane will die before that happens
30/04/2012 07:06:04 PM
- 901 Views
Re: I suspect Cadsuane will die before that happens
30/04/2012 08:36:44 PM
- 788 Views
Not sure Cadsuane will ever be reigned in by anyone
01/05/2012 01:18:44 AM
- 783 Views
Re: Egwene...
30/04/2012 07:41:11 AM
- 745 Views
Re: Egwene...
01/05/2012 07:10:35 PM
- 851 Views
Re: Egwene...
01/05/2012 10:51:09 PM
- 1072 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
01/05/2012 12:08:33 AM
- 985 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear...
24/04/2012 10:49:54 PM
- 950 Views
For me it's interesting simply because it is not all that well defined
24/04/2012 11:16:14 PM
- 964 Views
Elminster vs Karsus, Darth Vader vs Darth Revan, Demandred vs Sammael - who has more midichloriants.
25/04/2012 03:13:17 PM
- 1235 Views