I am not really trying to defend the vision as all that viable. My point has been more about showing that we can't simply assume that it's invalid because at the start of the vision the Aiel are still whole. There is more than one way the remnant of a remnant can happen. Rand "Saving" that remnant doesn't have to mean they are the only ones to survive TG. There is no mention of the Aiel dying during TG, only that Rand will Break them and Save the remnant. The Aiel we see in the vision go down a path and are destroyed ... We don't know anything about a possible group (say a remnant of a remnant) are still in existence following the Way...
I agree with most of you post below where you address the timing of the vision being prior to Rand's epiphany on Dragon Mount ... Although I think enlightened Rand will offer the Aiel the opportunity to become Dedicated again and some remnant may well accept that and stand aside from the fighting. The way the Prophesy is worded Rand Saving the remnant is an active statement and gives indication that he will directly do this much like he told them about their history. A direct action that opened the door to breaking them.
I've said before I find her vision highly unlikely at this point since the Aiel are very unlikely to ignore the warning in their own prophesy as many Wise Ones have spoken of doing everything they can to ensure the remnant is the largest possible group and the vision doesn't really bear that out.
I agree with most of you post below where you address the timing of the vision being prior to Rand's epiphany on Dragon Mount ... Although I think enlightened Rand will offer the Aiel the opportunity to become Dedicated again and some remnant may well accept that and stand aside from the fighting. The way the Prophesy is worded Rand Saving the remnant is an active statement and gives indication that he will directly do this much like he told them about their history. A direct action that opened the door to breaking them.
I've said before I find her vision highly unlikely at this point since the Aiel are very unlikely to ignore the warning in their own prophesy as many Wise Ones have spoken of doing everything they can to ensure the remnant is the largest possible group and the vision doesn't really bear that out.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 18/04/2012 at 02:32:22 PM
Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan
03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM
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The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future
03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM
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As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway.
03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM
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Depends on how one defines Aiel
04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM
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There are more than there were before.
04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM
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But when the prophesy was made there many followers
04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM
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The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM
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Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM
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Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well.
06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM
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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel.
07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM
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So what you're saying...
07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM
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What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel
08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM
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I never said it was.
08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM
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Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been
08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM
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No...
08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM
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You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM
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Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM
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Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc
08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM
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Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could
08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM
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You are consistently making the same mistake.
09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM
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They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel
10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
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No. They are not.
10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM
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Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel
10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM
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You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible.
10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM
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No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel
10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM
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All of which is entirely irrelevant.
10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM
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Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM
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Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant
11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM
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That is what I just said
14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM
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What is important about that?
14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM
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The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand
14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM
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So what you're saying is...
14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM
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That's exactly it
14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM
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Good.
15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM
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He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it
15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM
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Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever.
15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM
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We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM
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Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing
17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM
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Depends on how you look at the Prophesy
18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM
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Of course, but the point of my example was...
17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM
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Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years?
18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM
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