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We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM
Because Rand will save existence itself from Shai'tan, anything and everything that happens does so only because Rand allowed it to be preventing the total annihilation of everything.


You cannot take it so literally as the actions of only one person that matter. Rand has set in motion dozens of courses of action that probably end with a Prophesy fulfilled, characters have spoken about how the Prophesies are so cryptic he could have fulfilled dozens without them even knowing it. If Rand does not save existence then by default nothing else can happen.

And YES by saving existence itself Rand is indirectly responsible for anything that happens after. Clearly we see potential for people to make their own choices, but without Rand those choices are not possible and thus trace back to Rand. This does not mean Rand must do these deeds himself in order for Prophesy to be fulfilled, his mere existence enables the Prophesies to unfold.

His personal actions are almost incidental to the fulfillment of macro-level Prophesy such as the death of almost an entire race of people, unless you believe he will personally kill all but a remnant of the Aiel. His choices (i.e. saving those who,will accept the Peace of the Dragon) set Prophesy in motion... Thus twenty years after his death/dissapearance the Aiel who did not follow his Peace choose to wage an unwinnable war and end up dying out. They no longer have a purpose in the Pattern and are thus cut from it. Could as easily be some kind of plague or they could in fact die during TG. There are many options for the vast majority of the Aiel to die... Aviendha's vision is simply one of those options. An unlikely one as it clearly shows the Aiel in flagrant disregard to their own Prophesy, something they do not seem likely to do.

Think of how the Mirror Worlds work, they split off into infinite options based on an individual's choices/actions in life. Would Nynaeve of the main world be responsible for the actions created by the Nynaeve of a Mirror World? Or the actions of a Nynaeve of a Mirror World several times removed from the real world?
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1952 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 970 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 926 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 937 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 856 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 936 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1084 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 452 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 983 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1181 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 922 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 900 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 843 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 887 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1125 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 837 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 802 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 747 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 840 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 916 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 852 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 956 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 930 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 953 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 744 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 671 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 886 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 736 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 884 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 776 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 795 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 966 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 744 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 766 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 831 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 811 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 778 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 752 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 925 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 803 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 871 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 895 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 760 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 863 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 755 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 952 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 709 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 745 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 748 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 874 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 662 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 927 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 976 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 859 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 430 Views

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