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No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM
The Aiel is the whole. The remnant of a remnant is a fraction of the whole. The rest of those who are destroyed are the other fraction of that whole.

Remnant of a remnant + the destroyed = the Aiel

If the remnant of a remnant were equal to the whole of the Aiel, then by definition they would not be a remnant of a remnant, since the whole of the Aiel would be saved. And by the same reasoning, none would be destroyed, making the prophecy untrue. Yet you agreed that it was a true prophecy. Therefore, the Aiel and the remnant of a remnant cannot be defined identically.

So again:

He Who Comes With The Dawn will destroy the Aiel except for a remnant of a remnant whom he shall save?

Or, if you prefer using rosco12's more accurate quote:

He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live.

Define the bolded term in a way that is consistent with both the prophecy in question and Aviendha's vision.
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan DoraSedai - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1954 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM 1241 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. Fanatic-Templar - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 972 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 926 Views
There are more than there were before. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 939 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 858 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 938 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1087 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 452 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 985 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1183 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 924 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either DomA - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 901 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 844 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. DomA - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM 999 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 889 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1127 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 840 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. darius_sedai - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 805 Views
So what you're saying... Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 749 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 842 Views
I never said it was. Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 918 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 854 Views
No... Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 960 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 932 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 956 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc rosco12 - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 747 Views
Thanks for that. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 673 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 888 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 740 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 885 Views
No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 777 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 798 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 968 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 746 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 768 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 835 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant Fanatic-Templar - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 812 Views
That is what I just said darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 781 Views
What is important about that? Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 754 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 929 Views
So what you're saying is... Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 805 Views
That's exactly it darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 873 Views
Good. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 897 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 762 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 866 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 756 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing DomA - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 955 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 711 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 747 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 750 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. Fanatic-Templar - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 876 Views
Don't know when this became about winning darius_sedai - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 664 Views
Re: I never said it was. DoraSedai - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 931 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DomA - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 978 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 860 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* JasonD - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 430 Views
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