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No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM
The Aiel is the whole. The remnant of a remnant is a fraction of the whole. The rest of those who are destroyed are the other fraction of that whole.

Remnant of a remnant + the destroyed = the Aiel

If the remnant of a remnant were equal to the whole of the Aiel, then by definition they would not be a remnant of a remnant, since the whole of the Aiel would be saved. And by the same reasoning, none would be destroyed, making the prophecy untrue. Yet you agreed that it was a true prophecy. Therefore, the Aiel and the remnant of a remnant cannot be defined identically.

So again:

He Who Comes With The Dawn will destroy the Aiel except for a remnant of a remnant whom he shall save?

Or, if you prefer using rosco12's more accurate quote:

He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live.

Define the bolded term in a way that is consistent with both the prophecy in question and Aviendha's vision.
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan DoraSedai - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1957 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM 1245 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. Fanatic-Templar - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 975 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 935 Views
There are more than there were before. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 942 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 861 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 941 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1093 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 455 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 990 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1189 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 927 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either DomA - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 906 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 849 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. DomA - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM 1003 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 891 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1134 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 843 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. darius_sedai - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 812 Views
So what you're saying... Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 752 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 844 Views
I never said it was. Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 921 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 856 Views
No... Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 964 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 937 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 960 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc rosco12 - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 750 Views
Thanks for that. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 680 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 892 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 745 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 890 Views
No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 786 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 802 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 972 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 751 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 770 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 839 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant Fanatic-Templar - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 817 Views
That is what I just said darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 785 Views
What is important about that? Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 756 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 933 Views
So what you're saying is... Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 809 Views
That's exactly it darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 875 Views
Good. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 903 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 765 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 870 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 760 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing DomA - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 958 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 715 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 749 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 753 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. Fanatic-Templar - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 880 Views
Don't know when this became about winning darius_sedai - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 667 Views
Re: I never said it was. DoraSedai - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 934 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DomA - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 982 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 869 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* JasonD - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 434 Views
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