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They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
i think the Aiel who will survive as the remnant will be those that accept the true heritage of the Aiel.


Nobody has argued against that possibility. As I discussed with DomA, it is in fact most probable that it will play a significant part.

The issue, if you will recall, is that I claimed that the fact that the Aiel were not destroyed in Aviendha's vision meant that it was impossible according to more reliable prophecies. You claimed that alternate definitions of the Aiel could render this possible.

Since then, I've been trying to get you to provide a definition of the Aiel that makes this possible. But you haven't. Every time it comes down to it, you are redefining the "remnant of a remnant", not the "Aiel".

The prophecy contains two parts: A remnant of a remnant of those who call themselves Aiel will be destroyed, and the rest of them will be destroyed. If you can redefine Aiel in a way that is both consistent with Aviendha's vision and with both parts of this prophecy, feel free to do so.


Aviendah's vision does not define ALL the Aiel. In fact, her vision lays out a possibility of how the rest of the Aiel meet their end. There is no reason to believe that there were ther groups of Aiel who were not destroyed by the Seanchan ... Those who may well have gone to the Tuatha'an could very well have embraced the Way and still survive. Deny the Tuatha'an as part of the Aiel if it suits you, but the fact remains we know that they are related to them. Just because they no longer claim the name Aiel, does not mean they are not Aiel. May as well say a lion living in the zoo is no longer a lion because it's not in Africa.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan DoraSedai - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 2280 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM 1655 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. Fanatic-Templar - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 1292 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 1252 Views
There are more than there were before. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 1237 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 1184 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 1267 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1536 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 623 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 1336 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1692 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 1227 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either DomA - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 1218 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 1158 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. DomA - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM 1361 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 1302 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1508 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 1205 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. darius_sedai - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 1115 Views
So what you're saying... Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 1037 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 1162 Views
I never said it was. Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 1290 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 1199 Views
No... Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 1308 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 1289 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 1300 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc rosco12 - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 1091 Views
Thanks for that. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 963 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 1190 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 1085 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 1229 Views
No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 1109 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 1109 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 1300 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 1044 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 1094 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 1140 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant Fanatic-Templar - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 1145 Views
That is what I just said darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 1116 Views
What is important about that? Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 1071 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 1240 Views
So what you're saying is... Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 1141 Views
That's exactly it darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 1202 Views
Good. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 1215 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 1099 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 1152 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 1119 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing DomA - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 1321 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 1032 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 1078 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 1012 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. Fanatic-Templar - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 1192 Views
Don't know when this became about winning darius_sedai - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 967 Views
Re: I never said it was. DoraSedai - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 1261 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DomA - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 1322 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 1200 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* JasonD - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 594 Views
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