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They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM
i think the Aiel who will survive as the remnant will be those that accept the true heritage of the Aiel.


Nobody has argued against that possibility. As I discussed with DomA, it is in fact most probable that it will play a significant part.

The issue, if you will recall, is that I claimed that the fact that the Aiel were not destroyed in Aviendha's vision meant that it was impossible according to more reliable prophecies. You claimed that alternate definitions of the Aiel could render this possible.

Since then, I've been trying to get you to provide a definition of the Aiel that makes this possible. But you haven't. Every time it comes down to it, you are redefining the "remnant of a remnant", not the "Aiel".

The prophecy contains two parts: A remnant of a remnant of those who call themselves Aiel will be destroyed, and the rest of them will be destroyed. If you can redefine Aiel in a way that is both consistent with Aviendha's vision and with both parts of this prophecy, feel free to do so.


Aviendah's vision does not define ALL the Aiel. In fact, her vision lays out a possibility of how the rest of the Aiel meet their end. There is no reason to believe that there were ther groups of Aiel who were not destroyed by the Seanchan ... Those who may well have gone to the Tuatha'an could very well have embraced the Way and still survive. Deny the Tuatha'an as part of the Aiel if it suits you, but the fact remains we know that they are related to them. Just because they no longer claim the name Aiel, does not mean they are not Aiel. May as well say a lion living in the zoo is no longer a lion because it's not in Africa.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan DoraSedai - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1940 Views
The entire point, I believe, is to give Avienda the opportunity to change that future LadyLorraine - 03/04/2012 05:13:48 PM 1225 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. Fanatic-Templar - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 959 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 915 Views
There are more than there were before. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 927 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers darius_sedai - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 844 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 917 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1065 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 447 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 965 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DomA - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1161 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either darius_sedai - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 904 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either DomA - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 886 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. Fanatic-Templar - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 832 Views
Re: Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. DomA - 06/04/2012 12:20:31 AM 980 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 872 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1114 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 827 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. darius_sedai - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 785 Views
So what you're saying... Fanatic-Templar - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 731 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 824 Views
I never said it was. Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 899 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 838 Views
No... Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 942 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 916 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc Fanatic-Templar - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 942 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc rosco12 - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 733 Views
Thanks for that. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 661 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could darius_sedai - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 876 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. Fanatic-Templar - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 723 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 867 Views
No. They are not. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 765 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 783 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 950 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 731 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. Fanatic-Templar - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 752 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant darius_sedai - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 818 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant Fanatic-Templar - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 801 Views
That is what I just said darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 766 Views
What is important about that? Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 739 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 911 Views
So what you're saying is... Fanatic-Templar - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 789 Views
That's exactly it darius_sedai - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 859 Views
Good. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 882 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 745 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. Fanatic-Templar - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 849 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing darius_sedai - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 742 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing DomA - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 933 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 695 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... Fanatic-Templar - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 733 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? darius_sedai - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 734 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. Fanatic-Templar - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 863 Views
Don't know when this became about winning darius_sedai - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 649 Views
Re: I never said it was. DoraSedai - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 917 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DomA - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 963 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. DoraSedai - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 841 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* JasonD - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 425 Views
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