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No... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM
Mixing with the rest of the world too long.


... I said that by being mostly composed of people who were not bloodline Aiel, they were not Aiel genetically.
I also said that by abandoning their charge, they were not Aiel philosophically.
I said that in those two specific areas, the Tuatha'an could not be considered Aiel. I did not assert that either one of these were what defined an Aiel, nor even that both together were. They were simply the two possibilities that seemed most probable for asserting that the Tuatha'an might count as Aiel for the purpose of the prophecy.

2. I think it is an unclear matter on the true nature of the Aiel. Those who live in the Waste and call themselves Aiel would never have been accepted by their ancestors as they do not follow the Way. Thus the people who wrote the Prophesy could have been speaking of the ideological sense of Aiel rather than some racial sense of the Aiel. Personally I am beginning to believe the Aiel will need to embrace the Way once again to save their remnant of a remnant.


Here's the issue.

First of all, following the Way of the Leaf is not the extent of the ideological definition of the Aiel. Their ideology is one of not only pacifism, but also of servitude, something the Tuatha'an do not follow. The Aiel were servants to the Aes Sedai, servants to the Servants of All. Also, if we look at Rand's visions, it seems that being an Aiel is something hereditary, unless it just happened those ancestors were simply following in the family business. Though that would seem unlikely, as surely some of the Clan Chiefs' or Wise Ones' ancestors did not choose to be Aiel? Or maybe that's where the memories stop, at the first non-Aiel ancestor. Anyway, the Tuatha'an abandoned their duties, that's why I said they were not philosophically Aiel.

But let us go by your definition and replace "the Aiel" by "those who follow the Way of the Leaf" in the prophecy you agreed was correct.

Do you then believe that He Who Comes With The Dawn will destroy "those who follow the Way of the Leaf" except for a remnant of a remnant whom he shall save?
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
This message last edited by Fanatic-Templar on 08/04/2012 at 07:13:31 AM
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1957 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 975 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 935 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 942 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 860 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 941 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1093 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 455 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 990 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1189 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 927 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 906 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 849 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 891 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1134 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 843 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 811 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 752 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 844 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 921 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 856 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 964 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 937 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 960 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 750 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 680 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 892 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 745 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 890 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 785 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 802 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 971 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 751 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 770 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 838 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 816 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 785 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 756 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 933 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 809 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 875 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 903 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 765 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 870 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 760 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 958 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 715 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 749 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 753 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 880 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 667 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 933 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 982 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 869 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 434 Views

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