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No... Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM
Mixing with the rest of the world too long.


... I said that by being mostly composed of people who were not bloodline Aiel, they were not Aiel genetically.
I also said that by abandoning their charge, they were not Aiel philosophically.
I said that in those two specific areas, the Tuatha'an could not be considered Aiel. I did not assert that either one of these were what defined an Aiel, nor even that both together were. They were simply the two possibilities that seemed most probable for asserting that the Tuatha'an might count as Aiel for the purpose of the prophecy.

2. I think it is an unclear matter on the true nature of the Aiel. Those who live in the Waste and call themselves Aiel would never have been accepted by their ancestors as they do not follow the Way. Thus the people who wrote the Prophesy could have been speaking of the ideological sense of Aiel rather than some racial sense of the Aiel. Personally I am beginning to believe the Aiel will need to embrace the Way once again to save their remnant of a remnant.


Here's the issue.

First of all, following the Way of the Leaf is not the extent of the ideological definition of the Aiel. Their ideology is one of not only pacifism, but also of servitude, something the Tuatha'an do not follow. The Aiel were servants to the Aes Sedai, servants to the Servants of All. Also, if we look at Rand's visions, it seems that being an Aiel is something hereditary, unless it just happened those ancestors were simply following in the family business. Though that would seem unlikely, as surely some of the Clan Chiefs' or Wise Ones' ancestors did not choose to be Aiel? Or maybe that's where the memories stop, at the first non-Aiel ancestor. Anyway, the Tuatha'an abandoned their duties, that's why I said they were not philosophically Aiel.

But let us go by your definition and replace "the Aiel" by "those who follow the Way of the Leaf" in the prophecy you agreed was correct.

Do you then believe that He Who Comes With The Dawn will destroy "those who follow the Way of the Leaf" except for a remnant of a remnant whom he shall save?
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
This message last edited by Fanatic-Templar on 08/04/2012 at 07:13:31 AM
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1879 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 894 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 839 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 862 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 765 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 845 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 974 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 424 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 873 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1076 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 829 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 819 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 764 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 798 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1048 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 751 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 716 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 662 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 771 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 829 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 765 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 883 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 843 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 872 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 667 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 624 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 810 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 654 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 794 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 689 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 695 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 876 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 655 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 666 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 743 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 725 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 696 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 674 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 843 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 707 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 791 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 808 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 679 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 771 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 678 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 843 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 630 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 663 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 664 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 790 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 583 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 837 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 888 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 774 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 393 Views

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