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Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM
As for what Rand and the Prophesy, why else show the creation of the Tuatha'an as part of the Aiel history to him? Seems to me that they and the Aiel will have a reconciliation of some kind for the remnant to survive. IIRC some of the Aiel who threw down their spears went in sarch of the Tuatha'an ... But I'm not sure if I recall that correctly.


No, you are quite correct.

But that's beside the point. The point is that a fraction of the group "the Aiel" will be saved, but the rest will be destroyed. The way you choose to define "the Aiel" for the sake of this prophecy doesn't matter unless it can lead to both those end results.

Aviendha's vision is not possible, because regardless of what defines that saved fraction of the Aiel, the other part of that fraction was not destroyed. The prophecy predicts both.

If you choose to define "the Aiel" in a way other than the accepted use of the term as referring to the tribal people from the Aiel Waste who share a similar culture and history, then you may attempt to do so, but it needs to be able to fulfill those two end results. For example, it must be a group of people preexisting at the time of Rand's actions as the Dragon Reborn, elsewise there is no remnant to save nor any portion to destroy, as it is impossible to divide by zero, nor to save people who don't exist, nor to destroy people who don't exist.

So for the sake of clarity, please answer these two questions:

1: Do you agree that the Rhuidean Prophecy states that He Who Comes With The Dawn will destroy "the Aiel" except for a remnant of a remnant whom he shall save?

2: How do you define "the Aiel"?


Mixing with the rest of the world too long.

1. As long as the DO doesn't destroy the Pattern i have no reason to disbelieve a stated prophesy.

2. I think it is an unclear matter on the true nature of the Aiel. Those who live in the Waste and call themselves Aiel would never have been accepted by their ancestors as they do not follow the Way. Thus the people who wrote the Prophesy could have been speaking of the ideological sense of Aiel rather than some racial sense of the Aiel. Personally I am beginning to believe the Aiel will need to embrace the Way once again to save their remnant of a remnant.

I view the Tuatha'an and Aiel split as another opportunity for reunification that seems prevalent in the series similar to the Aes Sedai and the Asha'man may well unify to rebuild the Channeling society. Why else bring up the connection between the two groups? Potentially 3, but the Amayar suicide made that moot.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 08/04/2012 at 06:12:45 AM
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1894 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 907 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 860 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 879 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 785 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 862 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 992 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 433 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 904 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1099 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 843 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 838 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 780 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 815 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1066 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 769 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 733 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 679 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 790 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 845 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 781 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 899 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 863 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 888 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 681 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 638 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 826 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 670 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 809 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 707 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 715 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 893 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 673 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 684 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 763 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 745 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 715 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 691 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 859 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 730 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 809 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 827 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 695 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 795 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 695 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 865 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 647 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 680 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 679 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 803 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 602 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 859 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 904 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 792 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 402 Views

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