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Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM
With the full memories of LTT, after the fashion he is a master of time travel.


Well, that's not really time travel. Like a historian or an archaeologist, Rand only knows from the past from his source. And a single individual's eyewitness account, at that :P.

As to the main point, however, I of course agree that Rand destroying the Aiel will likely have something more to do with the Way of the Leaf, and that the followers could justifiably be considered a remnant of a remnant that he saves, except that this is only half of the prophecy. The rest of the Aiel must be destroyed, and I do not believe leaving them to pursue the lifestyle they've followed for millennia can be counted as "destroying" them. Unless we follow it through all the way to the end of Aviendha's vision, but I cannot accept that for two reasons:

1- It means that Aviendha's vision is actually true and inevitable,

2- The prophecy clearly states that this needs to be Rand's responsibility, and I have a very hard time blaming Rand for decisions made by others after his death in stubborn pursuit of a lifestyle they chose long before his birth. Rand's actions may be responsible for the circumstances that lead his children to make that decision, but Rand is shaping the entire world around him, there's unlikely to be any event in the future that cannot somehow be connected to Rand's actions, if only because Rand is probably responsible for the continued existence of the world that makes that 'future' possible anyway.

Rand's epiphany was about being less controlling of everybody's life and allowing them to make the right choices of their own volition, I cannot find a way to make this consistent with blaming Rand for the destruction of the Aiel dozens of generations after his death just because he created a world that bored the Aiel.

Which, to return to my original point, leaves that prophecy of "destruction of the Aiel" unaccounted for, either in the present or in Aviendha's vision, and therefore conclude that Aviendha's vision cannot happen.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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Aviendha, the columns, and the Seanchan - 03/04/2012 04:29:31 PM 1951 Views
As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 03/04/2012 07:30:52 PM 969 Views
Depends on how one defines Aiel - 04/04/2012 04:11:11 AM 926 Views
There are more than there were before. - 04/04/2012 07:03:27 AM 936 Views
But when the prophesy was made there many followers - 04/04/2012 10:10:54 AM 855 Views
The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 04/04/2012 06:28:47 PM 935 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 01:41:23 AM 1084 Views
Well that more than covers it *NM* - 05/04/2012 04:43:53 AM 451 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 07:39:04 AM 983 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 05/04/2012 02:14:37 PM 1180 Views
For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 02:25:47 PM 922 Views
Re: For the record I agree that the visions are not true either - 05/04/2012 11:36:53 PM 900 Views
Yes, I was thinking of the Aiel's suicidal traditions as well. - 05/04/2012 06:24:56 PM 843 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:51:00 PM 886 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 06/04/2012 10:38:24 PM 1124 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 06:27:27 AM 836 Views
Re: The Tuatha'an are not Aiel. - 07/04/2012 07:23:03 PM 802 Views
So what you're saying... - 07/04/2012 10:07:59 PM 746 Views
What I am saying is that it's not a "pure bloodline" that makes one an Aiel - 08/04/2012 12:16:10 AM 840 Views
I never said it was. - 08/04/2012 12:43:26 AM 915 Views
Actually you did In your above post you speak of the Tinkers as not Aiel because they have been - 08/04/2012 06:09:01 AM 851 Views
No... - 08/04/2012 07:12:22 AM 956 Views
You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 05:16:54 PM 929 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 06:43:27 PM 952 Views
Re: You have no evidence that the Tuath'an are mostly comprised of runaways etc - 08/04/2012 07:52:10 PM 744 Views
Thanks for that. - 09/04/2012 02:38:25 AM 671 Views
Red hair is double recessive ... Doesn't take much to eliminate it from the gene pool. There could - 08/04/2012 11:22:36 PM 885 Views
You are consistently making the same mistake. - 09/04/2012 02:45:46 AM 736 Views
They are the same thing. The remnant of a remnant are Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:04:55 AM 884 Views
No. They are not. - 10/04/2012 05:42:29 AM 776 Views
Never said the remnant of the remnant was the whole of the Aiel - 10/04/2012 05:45:47 PM 795 Views
You said that redefining the Aiel would allow Aviendha's vision to be possible. - 10/04/2012 06:53:51 PM 965 Views
No , I said there were many ways to interpret the statement based on how one defines Aiel - 10/04/2012 07:36:11 PM 744 Views
All of which is entirely irrelevant. - 10/04/2012 07:38:29 PM 765 Views
Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 10/04/2012 07:47:04 PM 830 Views
Re: Actually it states he will save a remnant of a remnant - 11/04/2012 01:40:36 AM 810 Views
That is what I just said - 14/04/2012 01:41:56 AM 778 Views
What is important about that? - 14/04/2012 04:35:55 AM 752 Views
The importance is that the prophesy says that Rand - 14/04/2012 06:06:31 PM 924 Views
So what you're saying is... - 14/04/2012 09:45:36 PM 802 Views
That's exactly it - 14/04/2012 11:21:25 PM 871 Views
Good. - 15/04/2012 02:01:14 AM 894 Views
He sets it in motion, thus his actions lead to it - 15/04/2012 02:55:13 PM 759 Views
Yes, but in that case, he is responsible for everything, ever. - 15/04/2012 05:29:31 PM 862 Views
We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 15/04/2012 07:21:29 PM 754 Views
Re: We are interpreting Prophesy here ... Direct v. Indirect actions are what we are discussing - 17/04/2012 04:18:32 AM 951 Views
Depends on how you look at the Prophesy - 18/04/2012 01:45:23 PM 709 Views
Of course, but the point of my example was... - 17/04/2012 06:08:09 PM 744 Views
Where are you getting this happens over thousands of years? - 18/04/2012 01:47:42 PM 747 Views
Because that was the important part of that post. - 18/04/2012 05:28:10 PM 873 Views
Don't know when this became about winning - 19/04/2012 02:08:16 AM 661 Views
Re: I never said it was. - 18/04/2012 12:37:23 AM 926 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 04/04/2012 07:16:13 AM 975 Views
Re: As far as I understand it, that future is impossible anyway. - 06/04/2012 10:33:00 PM 859 Views
Thank you for that analysis. *NM* - 17/04/2012 12:36:08 AM 430 Views

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