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Re: Fair enough, but I still disagree with your conclusions. DomA Send a noteboard - 29/03/2012 01:38:58 PM
Frankly, your last point, that she lost and remained their prisoner, can not be validated by the little knowledge we do know. At least, her "failure" can not be directly attributed to her lack of knowledge. In fact, I would argue that it was too much knowledge that may have taken her down the path she took. After all, the Rhuidean Rings gave her unique insight relating to her fate with the Eel'finn doorway. Her letters both to Rand and Mat validate this fact.


You build castles out of thin air. And it's the whole super Moiraine syndrome all over again.

Re-read the description of her passage in the rings from Aviendha. You only get to see flashes, and remember only a few of them.

None of that gave Moiraine insight to deal with the Finns. Knowing they must be the Foxes did her little good if it didn't tell her the limits to their power, what sort of gifts they can grant, or what are the rules in their bargaining beside the game's song.

Moiraine didn't manage to get out, and one of the gifts she asked for was the very angreal she brought there with Lanfear... then they "drank" much of her strength, perhaps as much as the angreal can now give her back. It really sounds that for lack of knowledge she misjudged and got a shabby deal.

The limits to what they can grant are very important, crucial. Mat got screwed because he asked to be rid of Aes Sedai and the OP, which they couldn't grant him - not the way he meant this wish to be fulfilled. It's worse for his memories.

The evidence the AS know nothing of those limits is shown in TSR when all the knowledge Moiraine cites comes from studies by NE Aes Sedai of the ter'angreal in Mayene.

We've witnessed the whole deal with Mat, and yet we couldn't guess at the limits or why the Finns did what they did. All the insight we got into those issues came from Q&A with Jordan. There's no reason to believe Moiraine, who knew much less of the facts, fared better than thousands of fans scratching their heads and analyzing Mat's scenes for years...



There's no reason to believe Moiraine got a great deal from the Finns, except through sheer luck, and Jordan's done irony and luck with Mat's deal, it's unlikely he'd repeat the device with Moiraine (especially when it will play out in the same last third of the "original" AMOL book...)

You have to consider the near certainty that she had no Rhuidean insight whatsoever about her bargain. She didn't even try to make Mat talk. She no doubt suspected he tried the second doorway, but she couldn't be sure he didn't pick objects in Rhuidean...

She saw the possibility she might get out, thanks to Mat and three others. But she could die, or Mat may not come. The fact ask to get the angreal suggests Moiraine threaded very carefully, because she figured out this bargain may be one of the key events on which her rescue hinged, that what she got might be keys to her dying or surviving until/if Mat came for her. From her letter to Rand, we know Moiraine knew nothing that concerned Rand (and given who he is, it means barely knowing anything about what could happen after her rescue indeed) Moiraine's demands probably were concerned with surviving until rescue happen, or helping her rescue to happen (which may well be right), or making sure she didn't mistep and block the way to her rescue. She thought like an Aes Sedai, that an angreal might be of help. That suggests she played it safe, asked for things that she knew they obviously could grant rather than take any chance. It didn't help with the Finns, it turned out. They gave her the angreal, but almost drained her. For all we know, one of the two remaining demands was to spare her life. That may well be why they didn't drain her completely or killed her much faster.

This message last edited by DomA on 29/03/2012 at 01:48:50 PM
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Aelfinn & Eelfinn and the Last Battle - 20/03/2012 11:53:40 AM 1513 Views
I think it's feasible that she got some new information... - 20/03/2012 02:23:09 PM 935 Views
Re: I think it's feasible that she got some new information... - 20/03/2012 05:57:33 PM 1025 Views
Re: Aelfinn & Eelfinn and the Last Battle - 20/03/2012 04:20:26 PM 1206 Views
I disagree with your conclusions on Moiraine's foreknowledge of the Eel'Finn - 20/03/2012 08:10:12 PM 771 Views
I think you overestimate her scholarship.... - 21/03/2012 12:41:17 PM 914 Views
Fair enough, but I still disagree with your conclusions. - 21/03/2012 10:39:45 PM 890 Views
Re: Fair enough, but I still disagree with your conclusions. - 29/03/2012 01:38:58 PM 940 Views
My idea! (Off topic, a note to DomA) - 20/03/2012 10:59:15 PM 692 Views
Re: Aelfinn & Eelfinn and the Last Battle - 28/03/2012 04:21:59 PM 643 Views

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