A battle, as I understand it, is a continuous, defined engagement that in confined in respect to time and location. The events since the epiphany are too vast and spread too far to be called a "battle". The Last Battle, as I see it, will be that engagement which directly ends with the DR facing the DO in SG.
Given that definition, I really don't think we're quite there yet, and in no way is that engagement going to start anywhere in the first part of aMoL.
Now, I've read your post about what you think Demandred is planning (and agree with a lot of it), and also your belief that Rand openly declared his intention to break the Seals so that this would force the Shadow to focus on SG and concentrate some of its troops there. I disagree with this idea.
For one thing, the Shadow should already be scared. Rand could go to SG tomorrow and Break the Seals and do what he needs to do. His actually breaking the Seals won't, in any way, change the level of vigilance the Shadow must devote to SG.
Secondly, I think Rand's explanation to Nynaeve makes it clear he sees very little time between his breaking of the Seals and his confrontation with the DO. He knows that unlike the AoL, this Age can barely survive a few months with the DO unfettered. His plan, therefore, is to force things to a head, and attack Shayol Ghul very soon. In fact, he says so himself:
"As you wish," Rand said, rising. "I once gave you an ultimatum. I phrased it poorly, and I regret that, but I remain your only path to the Last Battle. Without me, you will remain here, hundreds of leagues from those lands you swore to protect." He nodded to each
of them, then helped Min to her feet. "Tomorrow, I meet with the monarchs of the world. After that, I am going to go to Shayol Ghul and break the remaining seals on the Dark One's prison. Good day."
He clearly means to break the Seals at SG itself. His plan isn't to use the breaking of the Seals to blunt Demandred's capability to attack far south. His plan is to break the Seals and fix the prison, therefore making Demandred and his plans irrelevant!
What he doesn't know is that the trouble at the Black Tower, the gravity of which he's just begun to realize in ToM, is going to come to head soon. Worse, the Waygates he thinks secure are not secure at all, and the one in Caemlyn is breached.
And the timing of that invasion of Caemlyn is clearly during Merillor. For one, when Mat left for Genjei, Perrin was headed to Merillor. For another, when Olver opens Verin's letter, his PoV makes it clear Mat had just left recently. Caemlyn, then, is burning just after, or during, the meetings at Merrilor.
Worse, we have no idea when the Seanchan attack on TV is coming, but it is definitely imminent. And the Shadow's push into Tarwin's Gap is also begun...
I believe all these things will need attention before Rand's final push to SG can happen. And so, his plan to break the Seals soon after Merrilor isn't going to happen.
Now, Egwene has got part of the puzzle, but she's also gotten it wrong. She started with "even if the Seals must be broken, we need to plan how to defeat the DO before we break them". She then became more dogged in her opposition to Rand's plan and insisted the Seals don't need to be broken at all. We don't know if this is because of some research she had done at the Tower library, but it certainly makes a meeting of minds with Rand that much harder.
I think Egwene's Dream indicates that Rand's current timetable will lead to disaster. And certainly, since Rand makes clear close to the end of ToM that he still doesn't know how to Seal the DO permanently, this warning isn't preposterous.
They both have a piece of the puzzle. Rand knows the Seals must be broken first, before the DO can be finally defeated. Egwene has evidence that doing so right now will be bad. They also have things wrong. Egwene is completely against breaking the Seals. Rand wants to break them right away, and both have declared their intention to not change their minds no matter what the other says.
Added to this tense situation are Rand's "demands":
Egwene was there, with armies marshaled. He was ready for that. He'd counted on it.
On the morrow, they'd hear his demands. Not what he would demand
to keep him from breaking the seals, he was going to do that, regardless of what Egwene said. No, these would be the demands he made on the monarchs of the world in exchange for going to Shayol Ghul to face the Dark One.
He wasn't certain what he'd do if they refused him. They'd find it very difficult to do so. Sometimes, it could be useful to have a reputation for being irrational.
I think the demands will amount to a temporary peace with the Seanchan till the LB. I don't need to tell you this is going to be even less popular among those attending the meeting than his plan to break the Seals. I doubt even Cadsuane and Nynaeve will support him on this, and Alivia almost certainly won't.
Now, your argument, as I see it, boils down to "Rand has become wiser, and thus he will succeed in making people see his way in Merrilor". Your theory is that Rand is completely right about his plan.
To me, that is the most dis-satisfactory resolution to the "male-female" split that started in the AoL. Back then, both sides were partly correct and no one was completely right, and the Pattern used the differences to come up with a temporary solution. That temporary solution ended up causing an even greater, and unforeseen, rift between men and women, which the Pattern has been trying to correct.
Now, why in the world then, would it give Egwene a Dream about Rand breaking the Seals the exact moment Rand steps into the White Tower? Only to have her interpret it wrong? How does that serve the need for men and women to work together? I mean, Egwene has already had a terrifying Dream where Rand breaks the Seals. Why give her another about it just in time for her to object to Rand's plan, that she will here a mere hour later?
If all this is headed to Rand simply convincing everyone in Merrilor that he is right, then the theme of the male-female split that began in AoL is resolved by this time having the guy be fully right. Rand quells the female opposition, and the Champion of the Light succeeds...
Where in this are the men and women working together? All we have is the leader of the Male Aes Sedai being right, and the women following his lead, either because they were wrong, or, as you put it, because he leaves them no other choice.
To me, that completely destroys the theme of men and women working together. Yes, by your scheme, Rand would still work with some women like Nynaeve and Cadsuane. But the plan to defeat the Dark One would still be his. So, the resolution of the "LPD=LTT conflict would be... what? LTT shouldn't have been wrong?
As I see it, the situation is instead going to come very close to what happened in the AoL. Rand will say his piece, then Egwene will reveal her Dream (which Nynaeve, Cadsuane, Perrin, etc. don't know of. So I wouldn't count on their support of Rand at the moment to be everlasting). Bang in the middle comes the announcement that Caemlyn is overrun, and the BT taken by the Shadow, lending weight to Egwene's words. Maybe the news of Seanchan attacking TV comes too, making Rand's demands of peace with them seem even less likely.
All this is foreshadowed, I think. Rand wonders what he'll do without the women supporting him. He wonders how he'll handle it if the monarchs don't accept his terms. Egwene wonders what she'll do if Rand doesn't "see reason". Do you really think all this potential tension is going to become irrelevant because Rand is all zen and wise (though still intending to force the monarchs to do his bidding), and Egwene will "see the error in her ways"? This is Rand and Egwene! They broke up on amiable terms then spent two books bickering and setting each other off despite having almost exactly the same goals.
That has changed, and they both seem to respect each other now. But that doesn't mean that even as they see that the other is no monster, not someone to induce paranoia, they still have disagreements, and the ability to bring out great stubbornness in the other.
The first part of aMoL, then, has the Shadow in a position of strength, and the Light seemingly divided along the old lines, as in the AoL. Perhaps, in desperation, just as in the AoL, Rand will even think of acting without the women and doing what he initially planned to do, no matter the objections.
Meanwhile, Egwene will have resolved the Seanchan issue (I really think Rand declaring a peace with the Senachan, and Egwene's acceptance of the need for a peace with them from this is an even weaker end to the whole Egwene-Seanchan conundrum). This is when her dream of confronting Rand with a circle of women, including a Seanchan will come true. If anyone is now poised to buy into Egwene's argument that the Dragon's plan is dangerous, it is Tuon, after her disastrous meeting with dark-Rand.
This will set the stage for a divided Light fighting against a Shadow that is making immense gains. But, unlike the AoL, the two people at the rival "factions" of the Light actually know each other from before it all began. They even allude to this in ToM. Egwene thinks that it holds significance that she is the Amyrlin facing Rand, and Rand talks to Min about how he was brought up differently, mentioning all the major characters who are a major part of his life, but conspicuously excluding Egwene (proving that he isn't as sanguine about her opposition to his plan as he lets on).
I think the logjam will be resolved when both of them realize they need to come together or the Light fails. I think RJ carefully built parallel storylines for the two of them, and gave them several similar experiences in the series, just so that when they finally do have a frank talk, the commonality of their experiences, and their bond from their shared past, will allow for them to finally mend their fences and work together to defeat the DO.
Given that definition, I really don't think we're quite there yet, and in no way is that engagement going to start anywhere in the first part of aMoL.
Now, I've read your post about what you think Demandred is planning (and agree with a lot of it), and also your belief that Rand openly declared his intention to break the Seals so that this would force the Shadow to focus on SG and concentrate some of its troops there. I disagree with this idea.
For one thing, the Shadow should already be scared. Rand could go to SG tomorrow and Break the Seals and do what he needs to do. His actually breaking the Seals won't, in any way, change the level of vigilance the Shadow must devote to SG.
Secondly, I think Rand's explanation to Nynaeve makes it clear he sees very little time between his breaking of the Seals and his confrontation with the DO. He knows that unlike the AoL, this Age can barely survive a few months with the DO unfettered. His plan, therefore, is to force things to a head, and attack Shayol Ghul very soon. In fact, he says so himself:
"As you wish," Rand said, rising. "I once gave you an ultimatum. I phrased it poorly, and I regret that, but I remain your only path to the Last Battle. Without me, you will remain here, hundreds of leagues from those lands you swore to protect." He nodded to each
of them, then helped Min to her feet. "Tomorrow, I meet with the monarchs of the world. After that, I am going to go to Shayol Ghul and break the remaining seals on the Dark One's prison. Good day."
He clearly means to break the Seals at SG itself. His plan isn't to use the breaking of the Seals to blunt Demandred's capability to attack far south. His plan is to break the Seals and fix the prison, therefore making Demandred and his plans irrelevant!
What he doesn't know is that the trouble at the Black Tower, the gravity of which he's just begun to realize in ToM, is going to come to head soon. Worse, the Waygates he thinks secure are not secure at all, and the one in Caemlyn is breached.
And the timing of that invasion of Caemlyn is clearly during Merillor. For one, when Mat left for Genjei, Perrin was headed to Merillor. For another, when Olver opens Verin's letter, his PoV makes it clear Mat had just left recently. Caemlyn, then, is burning just after, or during, the meetings at Merrilor.
Worse, we have no idea when the Seanchan attack on TV is coming, but it is definitely imminent. And the Shadow's push into Tarwin's Gap is also begun...
I believe all these things will need attention before Rand's final push to SG can happen. And so, his plan to break the Seals soon after Merrilor isn't going to happen.
Now, Egwene has got part of the puzzle, but she's also gotten it wrong. She started with "even if the Seals must be broken, we need to plan how to defeat the DO before we break them". She then became more dogged in her opposition to Rand's plan and insisted the Seals don't need to be broken at all. We don't know if this is because of some research she had done at the Tower library, but it certainly makes a meeting of minds with Rand that much harder.
I think Egwene's Dream indicates that Rand's current timetable will lead to disaster. And certainly, since Rand makes clear close to the end of ToM that he still doesn't know how to Seal the DO permanently, this warning isn't preposterous.
They both have a piece of the puzzle. Rand knows the Seals must be broken first, before the DO can be finally defeated. Egwene has evidence that doing so right now will be bad. They also have things wrong. Egwene is completely against breaking the Seals. Rand wants to break them right away, and both have declared their intention to not change their minds no matter what the other says.
Added to this tense situation are Rand's "demands":
Egwene was there, with armies marshaled. He was ready for that. He'd counted on it.
On the morrow, they'd hear his demands. Not what he would demand
to keep him from breaking the seals, he was going to do that, regardless of what Egwene said. No, these would be the demands he made on the monarchs of the world in exchange for going to Shayol Ghul to face the Dark One.
He wasn't certain what he'd do if they refused him. They'd find it very difficult to do so. Sometimes, it could be useful to have a reputation for being irrational.
I think the demands will amount to a temporary peace with the Seanchan till the LB. I don't need to tell you this is going to be even less popular among those attending the meeting than his plan to break the Seals. I doubt even Cadsuane and Nynaeve will support him on this, and Alivia almost certainly won't.
Now, your argument, as I see it, boils down to "Rand has become wiser, and thus he will succeed in making people see his way in Merrilor". Your theory is that Rand is completely right about his plan.
To me, that is the most dis-satisfactory resolution to the "male-female" split that started in the AoL. Back then, both sides were partly correct and no one was completely right, and the Pattern used the differences to come up with a temporary solution. That temporary solution ended up causing an even greater, and unforeseen, rift between men and women, which the Pattern has been trying to correct.
Now, why in the world then, would it give Egwene a Dream about Rand breaking the Seals the exact moment Rand steps into the White Tower? Only to have her interpret it wrong? How does that serve the need for men and women to work together? I mean, Egwene has already had a terrifying Dream where Rand breaks the Seals. Why give her another about it just in time for her to object to Rand's plan, that she will here a mere hour later?
If all this is headed to Rand simply convincing everyone in Merrilor that he is right, then the theme of the male-female split that began in AoL is resolved by this time having the guy be fully right. Rand quells the female opposition, and the Champion of the Light succeeds...
Where in this are the men and women working together? All we have is the leader of the Male Aes Sedai being right, and the women following his lead, either because they were wrong, or, as you put it, because he leaves them no other choice.
To me, that completely destroys the theme of men and women working together. Yes, by your scheme, Rand would still work with some women like Nynaeve and Cadsuane. But the plan to defeat the Dark One would still be his. So, the resolution of the "LPD=LTT conflict would be... what? LTT shouldn't have been wrong?
As I see it, the situation is instead going to come very close to what happened in the AoL. Rand will say his piece, then Egwene will reveal her Dream (which Nynaeve, Cadsuane, Perrin, etc. don't know of. So I wouldn't count on their support of Rand at the moment to be everlasting). Bang in the middle comes the announcement that Caemlyn is overrun, and the BT taken by the Shadow, lending weight to Egwene's words. Maybe the news of Seanchan attacking TV comes too, making Rand's demands of peace with them seem even less likely.
All this is foreshadowed, I think. Rand wonders what he'll do without the women supporting him. He wonders how he'll handle it if the monarchs don't accept his terms. Egwene wonders what she'll do if Rand doesn't "see reason". Do you really think all this potential tension is going to become irrelevant because Rand is all zen and wise (though still intending to force the monarchs to do his bidding), and Egwene will "see the error in her ways"? This is Rand and Egwene! They broke up on amiable terms then spent two books bickering and setting each other off despite having almost exactly the same goals.
That has changed, and they both seem to respect each other now. But that doesn't mean that even as they see that the other is no monster, not someone to induce paranoia, they still have disagreements, and the ability to bring out great stubbornness in the other.
The first part of aMoL, then, has the Shadow in a position of strength, and the Light seemingly divided along the old lines, as in the AoL. Perhaps, in desperation, just as in the AoL, Rand will even think of acting without the women and doing what he initially planned to do, no matter the objections.
Meanwhile, Egwene will have resolved the Seanchan issue (I really think Rand declaring a peace with the Senachan, and Egwene's acceptance of the need for a peace with them from this is an even weaker end to the whole Egwene-Seanchan conundrum). This is when her dream of confronting Rand with a circle of women, including a Seanchan will come true. If anyone is now poised to buy into Egwene's argument that the Dragon's plan is dangerous, it is Tuon, after her disastrous meeting with dark-Rand.
This will set the stage for a divided Light fighting against a Shadow that is making immense gains. But, unlike the AoL, the two people at the rival "factions" of the Light actually know each other from before it all began. They even allude to this in ToM. Egwene thinks that it holds significance that she is the Amyrlin facing Rand, and Rand talks to Min about how he was brought up differently, mentioning all the major characters who are a major part of his life, but conspicuously excluding Egwene (proving that he isn't as sanguine about her opposition to his plan as he lets on).
I think the logjam will be resolved when both of them realize they need to come together or the Light fails. I think RJ carefully built parallel storylines for the two of them, and gave them several similar experiences in the series, just so that when they finally do have a frank talk, the commonality of their experiences, and their bond from their shared past, will allow for them to finally mend their fences and work together to defeat the DO.
Biggest blows to the Shadow...
12/03/2012 07:15:32 PM
- 1909 Views
Re: Biggest blows to the Shadow...
13/03/2012 12:37:55 AM
- 809 Views
Those were the exact three I had first on my list. Good call. *NM*
13/03/2012 04:55:29 AM
- 371 Views
Re: Biggest blows to the Shadow...
13/03/2012 04:51:32 AM
- 898 Views
Re: Biggest blows to the Shadow...
14/03/2012 06:22:51 PM
- 667 Views
Re: Biggest blows to the Shadow...
14/03/2012 11:36:00 PM
- 796 Views
Another Concord...
15/03/2012 12:33:51 AM
- 704 Views
The LB started in the epilogue of TOM, if you ask me...
15/03/2012 04:24:43 PM
- 568 Views
That's the war against the Shadow...
20/03/2012 06:01:02 AM
- 682 Views
This is a wonderful summary of what I feel the situation at Merrilor wil be and I wish I wrote this
29/04/2012 07:41:53 PM
- 685 Views
Re: Biggest blows to the Shadow...
13/03/2012 08:03:59 PM
- 691 Views
I disagree on number three don't think it's broad enough
17/03/2012 02:53:08 PM
- 556 Views
I wonder if it was advertised though?
17/03/2012 04:25:23 PM
- 630 Views
I very much doubt it
17/03/2012 04:48:56 PM
- 540 Views
Re: I very much doubt it
17/03/2012 07:33:48 PM
- 492 Views
It's funny because I don't think the Forsaken have proven particularly effective either
17/03/2012 07:47:58 PM
- 574 Views
I think they've been pretty effective
19/03/2012 10:46:11 AM
- 567 Views
Yet they have done very little to move the grand plan forward
19/03/2012 11:51:59 PM
- 529 Views
What plan?
20/03/2012 08:18:40 AM
- 750 Views
I disagree ... The DO seems to have a plan and Moridin showed us he is following a prophesy
20/03/2012 01:05:40 PM
- 606 Views
Up until the very end of TGS, wasn't the plan to turn Rand/make him do the DO's job for him?
29/04/2012 07:46:04 PM
- 599 Views
Re: I very much doubt it
17/03/2012 09:59:15 PM
- 562 Views
Regarding Demandred
19/03/2012 11:11:22 AM
- 507 Views
Re: I disagree on number three don't think it's broad enough
17/03/2012 05:46:31 PM
- 655 Views
I always thought of the victory at the Eye as the Lights first big win in the series
17/03/2012 07:27:12 PM
- 615 Views
Re: I always thought of the victory at the Eye as the Lights first big win in the series
17/03/2012 09:16:08 PM
- 659 Views
Re: I always thought of the victory at the Eye as the Lights first big win in the series
30/04/2012 07:04:06 PM
- 587 Views
"Seemingly young girl"? Is she actually old or something? Maybe she's not a girl?
19/03/2012 01:39:12 AM
- 645 Views
Re: "Seemingly young girl"? Is she actually old or something? Maybe she's not a girl?
19/03/2012 03:34:11 AM
- 624 Views
Re: "Seemingly young girl"? Is she actually old or something? Maybe she's not a girl?
19/03/2012 10:35:57 AM
- 710 Views