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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues Sidious Send a noteboard - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM

I meant narratively, not that his moral alignment is a physical prerequisite for accessing the True Power. You're right in that I don't think Rand being good would actually prevent him from using it if Shai'tan allowed, but the themes of the story are quite clear that using the Shadow's weapons against it is the wrong way.


Well I'm not sure if I totally agree. I think that the Shadow has often been seen to screw its self. I can't think of anything more satisfying than Rand preventing another taint on the One Power using the Dark One's own magic against him. I'm not saying it will happen, but thematically I don't see a problem. I'm not saying that Rand must be evil, but it could be similar to Verin infiltrating the BA to destroy them. Sometimes the Light gets to be smug too..


There's nothing that would indicate that. The end of that confrontation indicates a change in Ba'alzamon's pattern of attack, not in the power of those attacks.

I don't agree. The text says that he suddenly becomes so black that he even soaks up the light of Callandor. Until then, the text clearly stated that he had no chance against Rand with the sa'angreal. It's a sign that he has suddenly gained equal footing, and its reflected in his triumphant look.

If he had been using small balls of blackness and now suddenly had a large ball of blackness, I might agree. But as is, there is no indication that he was using the same power source (in fact, I get the impression that he was using Dreamwalking techniques more than either sort of Power in that battle. We've never seen anyone use Channelling to fill a room with water, for example, or altering air pressure, or gravity, and so forth).


I agree with you that he was dreamwalking until then. Well, mostly. I think his initial attacks of balefire were channeled, but after that he travelled and most likely went to TAR where Rand chased after him. I think you probably could do all of those things with the OP if you had the aptitudes, but Ishamael is strong in TAR, its logical he'd go there if being chased by a strong channeler.

Apart from that, I'm not sure if you're contending that Ishamael used saidin mostly and had to beg for TP use? I find that completely unlikely. I think his appearance is more than evidence enough that he is an exclusive TP user and has been since the War of Power.

Besides, I wonder why you think it is more reasonable to claim Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan to change the quantity of Power he was using, rather than to access it at all. We at least know that the latter is the general rule.

I guess he asked the DO to aid him directly. That's sort of like having your patron god come down and defend you.
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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2061 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 1005 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1071 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1139 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 967 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 996 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 1017 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 944 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 827 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 887 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 777 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 859 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 798 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 534 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 976 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 985 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 842 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 849 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 817 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 713 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 704 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 857 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 907 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 673 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 776 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 646 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 605 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 674 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 676 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 935 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 599 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 954 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 718 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 359 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 655 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 961 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 653 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 666 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 818 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 667 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 649 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 764 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 701 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 672 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 760 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 774 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 593 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 799 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 932 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 871 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 699 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 720 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 677 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 711 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 659 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 690 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 887 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 702 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 838 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 909 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 879 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 760 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 872 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 692 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 799 Views

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