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I totally agree with you on both issues Ben DomA Send a noteboard - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM
On a purely practical level, why would Shai'tan allow it? The True Power is not an impersonal power source like the True Source, it's Shai'tan essence. Even if you contend that his link with Moridin will allow him access, even Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan's support, see their confrontation at the end of The Dragon Reborn.

In D&D terms, one is Wizard magic and the other is Cleric magic.


Rand didn't just touch the TP in TGS as part of a lure by the DO. I'm sure it serves a greater purpose.


Actually, it served a lower purpose. It was an indication of how far Rand had fallen at the time. That part of the story was all about how dark Rand was becoming, and that Shai'tan was granting him direct access to the power of pure evil is indication enough of that.

As I said, something has to touch the DO. Unless you have a theory on what could be used to prevent the taint occurring again, I think the TP is a good alternative.


I don't know how they're going to fix the prison, but that doesn't make your suggestion any more feasible. The burden of proof is on your claim, and you haven't addressed either of the evident flaws I mentioned in the previous post.


That Rand would use the True Power in those scenes seems to contradict everything it's all about.

The subtext in the scene where he used it was that he had embraced evil and was in communion with Shai'tan himself. He bathed in his presence through him, its power, its ectasy. This was also the state of mind completely opposite to the one Rand experienced at his epiphany, which made him decide to go on and save the world. It was a dark, evil, nihilistic state of mind. Rand can't be in that state of mind and wish saving the world. Through several books, Rand's loss of feelings and humanity has been presented as his great weakness and a grave danger for the world. It's what Min, Cadsuane and co. all feared, going as far as saying a Dragon like that would be as bad as victory of the DO... It goes way back, the first sign of soemthing "wrong" with Rand and his emotions came from Asmodean, who told him it isn't normal that he felt no emotions once he's connected with saidin. That Rand would now need to embrace that evil state of mind at SG is in flagrant contradiction with many of the themes. He couldn't maintain that state and use his bonds to his women or his connection to Perrin Mat. It's a utterly evil, unhuman and nihilistic state of mind.

Another logical problem with the theory is that it manages more or less to explain that Rand can draw the TP from his connection to Moridin. That's all well and good, but it combines this with the fact Rand will use Callandor with two women. We don't even know if it's possible to form a circle using the TP (and personally I highly doubt it... the whole themes surrounding the Shadow is "every one for himself";), but let's say it is for the sake of it. What we know, though, is that a channeler must be placed on the verge of embracing the source to enter a circle. With which two women Rand could possibly do this using the TP? Which two women near Rand could put themselves in the proper evil state of mind to embrace the True Power? Moiraine, Nynaeve, Egwene, Alivia, Cadsuane? LOL! Rand trying to explain to Nynaeve that in order to defeat evil they must agree to fully embrace it and be in communion with Shai'tan himself, and let his essence run through them would make for a rich scene, one that would end with Nynaeve (or Moiraine, Egwene, Cadsuane... take you pick) kicking the hell out of Rand. The whole thematic structure of this doesn't work and contradicts Rand's epiphany. Rand had to become one with Creation and with humanity, which began by fully embracing his feelings for his loved ones and friends. The TP is the opposite, a utter rejection of all that, cold as ice hatred and nihilism.
















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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2157 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 1095 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1165 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1228 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 1061 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 1090 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 1116 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 1043 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 921 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 974 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 870 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 956 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 892 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 572 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 1073 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 1078 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 947 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 929 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 902 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 809 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 794 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 960 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 1012 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 742 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 873 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 738 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 704 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 766 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 770 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 1039 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 696 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 1052 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 801 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 401 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 759 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 1061 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 749 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 772 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 919 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 764 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 748 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 853 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 796 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 768 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 883 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 869 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 679 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 874 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 1027 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 978 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 811 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 812 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 781 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 807 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 758 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 788 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 973 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 800 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 926 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 999 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 972 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 866 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 973 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 793 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 907 Views

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