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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM
Thats opinion, and not supported by the text of that scene IMO. Rand reached out to anything he could to save his wife whom he was about to murder. It was desperation, not malice. The fact that he had access to the TP is a physical occurence ... He's linked to Moridin. Obviously the DO wanted Rand to channel it and there's no denying that Rand is close to evil before his renaissance, but the Forsaken are also evil and they don't want to touch it, so its really not linked to any sort of moral standing on his part.


I meant narratively, not that his moral alignment is a physical prerequisite for accessing the True Power. You're right in that I don't think Rand being good would actually prevent him from using it if Shai'tan allowed, but the themes of the story are quite clear that using the Shadow's weapons against it is the wrong way.

Well I thought I was addressing the Moridin issue. The DO may need to cut him off from the TP to stop Rand from using it, which he may not want to do. Unless Rand is in the Bore he needs Moridin to defend the Shadow.

As for TDR he didnt need to beg the DO for assistance. He may have been using the TP all along. At that point it says he became darker than the light of Callandor. The DO may have filled him with a massive amount of the TP, hence Ishamael's triumphant look.


There's nothing that would indicate that. The end of that confrontation indicates a change in Ba'alzamon's pattern of attack, not in the power of those attacks. If he had been using small balls of blackness and now suddenly had a large ball of blackness, I might agree. But as is, there is no indication that he was using the same power source (in fact, I get the impression that he was using Dreamwalking techniques more than either sort of Power in that battle. We've never seen anyone use Channelling to fill a room with water, for example, or altering air pressure, or gravity, and so forth). Besides, I wonder why you think it is more reasonable to claim Ishamael needed to beg Shai'tan to change the quantity of Power he was using, rather than to access it at all. We at least know that the latter is the general rule.
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2061 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 1005 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1071 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1139 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 967 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 996 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 1017 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 944 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 827 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 887 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 777 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 859 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 798 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 534 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 977 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 985 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 843 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 850 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 817 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 714 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 704 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 857 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 907 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 673 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 776 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 646 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 605 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 674 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 676 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 936 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 599 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 954 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 718 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 359 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 655 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 961 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 654 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 666 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 818 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 667 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 649 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 764 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 701 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 672 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 760 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 774 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 594 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 799 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 932 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 872 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 700 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 720 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 677 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 711 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 659 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 690 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 888 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 702 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 838 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 910 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 879 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 760 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 872 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 692 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 799 Views

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