As per usual you choose to assume the people of WoT have your belief system when you comment on the
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 19/02/2012 05:31:57 PM
text of the books. I am pointing out that you have added your personal beliefs onto a fictional setting where those beliefs make no sense. If Elayne was a modern day Earth leader I would agree with you, but the fact is she's not, she is a ruler in a world where they have drastically different rules and systems in place. Elayne is trying to be a responsible ruler by following those systems, but is also doing her best to be innovative in managing the messes she got handed by outside sources.
1. Right or wrong the AS swing a big political stick. Bitching about it is useless, it exists and thus the people of WoT recognize it (even if they don't always love it). The Catholic Church in our own world had similar influence for centuries, and for many of the same reasons.
2. Right or wrong Elayne is an AS and is supporting the power of the Tower. This support will benefit her people for as long as the Tower maintains its influence (much like the Borgia or Hapsburg families). She needs to consider how to balance her ties to the Tower and her duty to her people. You rightly point out that she has changed her tune since gaining the Shawl and that is suspect... It bugs me too that her personal loyalty to the father of her children has seemingly vanished ... We do not see this from Rands other lovers.
3. Right or wrong the alliance with the Kin puts her in a precarious position with the Tower as organizing groups of channelers is one of the first thing the Tower forbid upon formation. However, she is aware of Egwene's plans to bring the Kin into the WT service on some level so her plan to keep them in one place won't be difficult to sell to Egwene as long as the Tower gets some benefit from their service agreement as well.
4. Elayne ensured that all taxes collected in the Two Rivers are to be controlled by the Steward of the Two Rivers FOR the Two Rivers. She explicitly states this in the text. The whole scene is designed to legitimize Perrin in a world where democratic process doesn't truly exist. Wonderful that the people of the Two Rivers elected him Lord, but given the politics of the WoT world that is never going to be enough. To remain unchallenged as a Lord he needed the Queens Blessing. Now no foreign power can refuse his rights or invade his territory without bringing the power of Andor against them. May not mean much since the most likely invaders (Seanchan) won't give a rats ass about his pedigree anyway, but 50 years ago it would have been meaningful. As with most things in WoT, communication and adaptation seem to lack so Elayne falls back on the established systems rules to, legitimize Rand and Perrin and create a strong alliance with both Ghealdan and Saldea ... All of these things serve to strengthen Andor and help her ensure her people's safety from the Seanchan and the Shadow.
5. Your grasp on their economic realities is a farce. Cairhein is a ruin financially, most of the land has lain fallow for more than 20 years thanks to the Aiel War and the ongoing civil war and political maneuvering Cairhienin leadership has been unknown for long enough that without Elayne the nation would likely collapse into something closer to Altara or Murrandy. Cairhein collapsing will be bad for Andor as they have been the closest and likely major trading partner for the last 1,000 years. An influx of trade from all over the world will shore up the economies of both Andor and Cairhein.
6. The vast majority of the land in WoT is a wilderness ... Remember when Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne hopped off a boat on the way to Tear and were several hours or more from human habitation... RIGHT ON THE RIVER? Or how about when Rand and Mat spent weeks traveling FROM A RIVER to Caemlyn with very little in the way of human habitation? Very doubtful anyone will get displaced for the Seafolk enclave to be built. Andor and Cairhein need the influx of new trade the Sea Folk will bring by having permanent enclave of the SF. And while the Kin can help some transportation needs, expecting them to be the main resource for moving goods is unrealistic and flies in the face of how commerce is conducted in WoT so even if they could manage all of it, it will take time for the rest of the world to figure out the nuances of the process since places like Saldae or Tear have no complimentary system. Channelers are still a very scarce resource, and Even Rand needed to ship grain via the SF.
Rant all you like, but the WoT world doesn't revolve around your moral code, they don't have a democratic process and they are a society in failure that falls back on established precedent because they tend to live in fear, and change makes people more afraid.
1. Right or wrong the AS swing a big political stick. Bitching about it is useless, it exists and thus the people of WoT recognize it (even if they don't always love it). The Catholic Church in our own world had similar influence for centuries, and for many of the same reasons.
2. Right or wrong Elayne is an AS and is supporting the power of the Tower. This support will benefit her people for as long as the Tower maintains its influence (much like the Borgia or Hapsburg families). She needs to consider how to balance her ties to the Tower and her duty to her people. You rightly point out that she has changed her tune since gaining the Shawl and that is suspect... It bugs me too that her personal loyalty to the father of her children has seemingly vanished ... We do not see this from Rands other lovers.
3. Right or wrong the alliance with the Kin puts her in a precarious position with the Tower as organizing groups of channelers is one of the first thing the Tower forbid upon formation. However, she is aware of Egwene's plans to bring the Kin into the WT service on some level so her plan to keep them in one place won't be difficult to sell to Egwene as long as the Tower gets some benefit from their service agreement as well.
4. Elayne ensured that all taxes collected in the Two Rivers are to be controlled by the Steward of the Two Rivers FOR the Two Rivers. She explicitly states this in the text. The whole scene is designed to legitimize Perrin in a world where democratic process doesn't truly exist. Wonderful that the people of the Two Rivers elected him Lord, but given the politics of the WoT world that is never going to be enough. To remain unchallenged as a Lord he needed the Queens Blessing. Now no foreign power can refuse his rights or invade his territory without bringing the power of Andor against them. May not mean much since the most likely invaders (Seanchan) won't give a rats ass about his pedigree anyway, but 50 years ago it would have been meaningful. As with most things in WoT, communication and adaptation seem to lack so Elayne falls back on the established systems rules to, legitimize Rand and Perrin and create a strong alliance with both Ghealdan and Saldea ... All of these things serve to strengthen Andor and help her ensure her people's safety from the Seanchan and the Shadow.
5. Your grasp on their economic realities is a farce. Cairhein is a ruin financially, most of the land has lain fallow for more than 20 years thanks to the Aiel War and the ongoing civil war and political maneuvering Cairhienin leadership has been unknown for long enough that without Elayne the nation would likely collapse into something closer to Altara or Murrandy. Cairhein collapsing will be bad for Andor as they have been the closest and likely major trading partner for the last 1,000 years. An influx of trade from all over the world will shore up the economies of both Andor and Cairhein.
6. The vast majority of the land in WoT is a wilderness ... Remember when Nynaeve, Egwene and Elayne hopped off a boat on the way to Tear and were several hours or more from human habitation... RIGHT ON THE RIVER? Or how about when Rand and Mat spent weeks traveling FROM A RIVER to Caemlyn with very little in the way of human habitation? Very doubtful anyone will get displaced for the Seafolk enclave to be built. Andor and Cairhein need the influx of new trade the Sea Folk will bring by having permanent enclave of the SF. And while the Kin can help some transportation needs, expecting them to be the main resource for moving goods is unrealistic and flies in the face of how commerce is conducted in WoT so even if they could manage all of it, it will take time for the rest of the world to figure out the nuances of the process since places like Saldae or Tear have no complimentary system. Channelers are still a very scarce resource, and Even Rand needed to ship grain via the SF.
Rant all you like, but the WoT world doesn't revolve around your moral code, they don't have a democratic process and they are a society in failure that falls back on established precedent because they tend to live in fear, and change makes people more afraid.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
Bad Elayne! No biscuit!
18/02/2012 10:13:54 PM
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You are assigning your 21st century view onto people with totally different circumstances
18/02/2012 11:33:56 PM
- 886 Views
You are assigning your knee-jerk assumptions to my post
19/02/2012 03:29:02 AM
- 886 Views
As per usual you choose to assume the people of WoT have your belief system when you comment on the
19/02/2012 05:31:57 PM
- 994 Views
It has nothing to do with a specific system of morality, but basic natural law.
19/02/2012 11:26:13 PM
- 1051 Views
Where were Mat and Rand when they found Domon? In a wilderness along the RIVER.
20/02/2012 12:40:38 AM
- 871 Views
Re: Where were Mat and Rand when they found Domon? In a wilderness along the RIVER.
22/02/2012 01:10:54 AM
- 1008 Views
Just read the books. Including the BWB ... It spells it out for those who care to read.
22/02/2012 02:48:45 AM
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The Queen of Andor lost all authority over the Two Rivers when she failed to protect it. *NM*
25/03/2012 02:53:23 PM
- 441 Views
Which is why they elected their own lord
25/03/2012 06:25:31 PM
- 796 Views
Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
18/02/2012 11:44:19 PM
- 1159 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
20/02/2012 03:11:14 AM
- 1245 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
20/02/2012 06:22:21 AM
- 797 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
22/02/2012 06:23:36 PM
- 945 Views
Re: Yes, absolutely. I remember saying this back when I first read the book.
22/02/2012 09:03:53 PM
- 891 Views
"Damn sister married the Pope instead of my chosen Lord Ohsoimportant"
25/03/2012 03:50:06 PM
- 941 Views
Okay, I admit it, there is no way I am reading such a long post about Elayne.....
19/02/2012 08:14:53 PM
- 842 Views
The Caraline treatment.
25/03/2012 02:41:12 PM
- 808 Views
Do you Colavaer Saighan? I don't recall Caraline having her lands and titles stripped
25/03/2012 10:44:57 PM
- 860 Views
I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
11/05/2012 12:05:25 AM
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Re: I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
11/05/2012 02:10:01 AM
- 927 Views
Re: I think she did an admirable job protecting Andor in very challenging circumstances.
24/05/2012 06:45:19 AM
- 936 Views
Generally, I think both her means AND ends were correct; reconciling them was the challenge.
30/05/2012 03:55:00 AM
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