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Yes! And...? fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 15/12/2011 02:53:37 AM

In RJ's own words, which you conveniently only partially quoted above, Egwene is one step below the Forsaken and one step above modern day Aes Sedai.

There was no convenience to it. When have I stated other than that the strongest Aes Sedai are around 50-60? You're the one who puts them at measly scores like 25 as if that makes any sense.

In other words, Egwene lies equidistant between modern Aes Sedai and the female Forsaken. To put it in plain English, she is halfway up the ladder between normal Aes Sedai and the female Forsaken.

Thank you. That is exactly my point.

So if Moghedien is at 80 and Egwene at 70, then Moiraine is at 60.

More or less, yes.

Kind of problematic, seeing as Egwene is roughly as strong as Amys and Melaine combined...

No she is not. Aviendha says that, but it has quite obviously been disproved.

Lets look at it this way: In aCoS, Nynaeve was stronger than Elayne, with both not at full potential, but above Elayne's eventual potential.

At this point, Nyneave was unable to shield Elayne.

Yet, at this same time, two Aes Sedai weaker than Liandrin can shield Nynaeve, and have strength left over to make a wall of Air to block Lan! Two women who, when combined, are definitely weaker than Melaine and Amys are able to overpower a woman defintitely stronger than Egwene at full potential. Which makes it completely impossible that Egwene is stronger than Amys or Melaine. The fact that women weaker than Amys can easily hold a shield on Egwene (this list includes Katarine and Barasine) also points to this.

The bonfire vs candle comparison is meant to indicate that Nynaeve is in a whole different ballpark to Egwene.

But she is. 95 is well above 70-75.

It is hyperbole. It is quite ridiculous for you to suggest that they were trying to compare the candlepower or lumens, to use a flashlight term, of a bonfire to an equivalent number of candles, as you are trying to make out in order to deliberately ridicule this otherwise valid statement.
The fact that it is hyperbole is precisely why I argue that you cannot use this quote to make any quantitative statement about the strength difference between Egwene and Nynaeve. You are the one using a qualitative, hyperbolic statement to make a quantitative measure.

I understand why you do it, because you have to, in order to prevent your entire fabricated strength ratio from falling apart.

To the contrary, it is one of the two legs holding your precarious stool up. Which is why you insist it is a meaningful quantitative statement.

But the reality is that it was meant to indicate that Nynaeve is at Forsaken level, which is as far removed from Egwene's level as Egwene is from Moiraine's.

Exactly. It says nothing about the actual difference between these levels.

Just like a burning candle is on a whole new level to a brief, small spark, representing normal Aes Sedai, so a bonfire is on a whole diffirent level to the candle.

But who said Aes Sedai are only a brief small spark?

It is all there, patently clear. If you have the will to accept it.

Its all there is your head, and sadly makes absolutely no sense to anyone except you.
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Underestimating Forsaken strength Nessarra - 11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM 1949 Views
Ah, my favourite topic makes a return... Shannow - 11/12/2011 07:45:29 AM 856 Views
Re: Ah, my favourite topic makes a return... Nessarra - 11/12/2011 10:25:03 PM 849 Views
Yes, you are probably correct Sidious - 12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM 978 Views
Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed Watcher - 12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM 784 Views
The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4? Shannow - 12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM 812 Views
I find that unlikely Sidious - 12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM 777 Views
Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR? Shannow - 13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM 787 Views
Well.... Sidious - 13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM 810 Views
Well there we have it Shannow - 13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM 821 Views
Re: Well there we have it Sidious - 13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM 852 Views
Re: Well there we have it Shannow - 13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM 791 Views
Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM 866 Views
That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM* Sidious - 14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM 437 Views
Where would you place Egwene though? fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM 776 Views
Re: Where would you place Egwene though? Sidious - 14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM 745 Views
Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe... Shannow - 14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM 926 Views
fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM 720 Views
The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ... Shannow - 14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM 744 Views
Yes! And...? fionwe1987 - 15/12/2011 02:53:37 AM 765 Views
Yes I would agree with that Sidious - 14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM 904 Views
Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane TyrReborn - 14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM 693 Views
No Sidious - 14/12/2011 09:10:34 PM 778 Views
That makes no sense. TyrReborn - 14/12/2011 09:13:48 PM 847 Views
Correct. Shannow - 14/12/2011 09:43:53 PM 775 Views
Re: Correct. Sidious - 15/12/2011 05:54:37 AM 775 Views
So many instances of logical laziness in that post... Shannow - 14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM 1216 Views
Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post... Sidious - 15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM 714 Views
There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements... Shannow - 15/12/2011 07:03:01 AM 796 Views
Re: There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements... Sidious - 17/12/2011 10:25:47 AM 831 Views
Because a difference of a few % is negligible, and not even worth mentioning... Shannow - 17/12/2011 10:54:49 AM 702 Views
How could you possibly use Gateways... fionwe1987 - 17/12/2011 12:40:03 PM 728 Views
Repyling at bottom of thread for space reasons... *NM* Shannow - 17/12/2011 02:57:43 PM 408 Views
Only slight diffence I have is regarding general AS strength darius_sedai - 30/12/2011 04:45:49 PM 782 Views
I think it was just Aes Sedai hyperbole RugbyPlayingAshaman - 15/12/2011 09:51:00 PM 640 Views
And entirely based off your shared assumption. Fanatic-Templar - 14/12/2011 05:15:51 AM 844 Views
Actually that's a lot of logical assumption. *NM* LadyLorraine - 13/12/2011 01:28:00 PM 375 Views
But... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 03:06:15 AM 645 Views
And darius_sedai - 30/12/2011 05:07:13 PM 743 Views
Yes Cannoli - 13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM 914 Views
Re: Yes RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM 809 Views
Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry, Shannow - 13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM 864 Views
There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM 838 Views
None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it... Shannow - 13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM 740 Views
But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM 728 Views
What Rand is doing... fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 03:43:08 AM 848 Views
That would make sense given Min's vision RugbyPlayingAshaman - 16/12/2011 04:37:56 PM 656 Views
Wait.. I DIDN'T write that! fionwe1987 - 14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM 729 Views
Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:" Shannow - 17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM 844 Views
You're basically saying "correlation equals causation"... fionwe1987 - 18/12/2011 06:18:47 AM 779 Views
On gateways Sidious - 18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM 807 Views
Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha. echooff - 19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM 1007 Views
I suspect he knows that... fionwe1987 - 19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM 730 Views
Nope...some maths problems in your post. Shannow - 19/12/2011 07:41:29 PM 765 Views
But 64 square feet is not Elayne's maximum... fionwe1987 - 20/12/2011 02:46:50 AM 722 Views
But Shielding is also relative. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/12/2011 09:35:11 PM 1973 Views
Re: Underestimating Forsaken strength Tedtheman - 22/12/2011 05:24:53 PM 764 Views
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