But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
This would not be like a women randomly believing that she could make herself stronger if she got angry enough. What I am describing is a woman's individual destiny being that at one particular moment in her life, she will be strong enough to do whatever the Pattern needed her to do. The Pattern's most direct way to do this would be through making her a t'a'veren for that one moment. We might even see this same circular reasoning in how one gains strength in the Power; it could be said, philosophically, that individual gains in the Power are meant to make sure each individual is capable of fulfilling what the Wheel wills at that moment. You could almost attribute an almost biblical quality to what seems like a mechanical process: the Pattern gives you strength in a direct portion to what you need to accomplish in a given life.
The scene in which Rand visits Egwene in the Hall is interesting when I think of the metaphysical underpinnings of the One Power; in this moment, even if every single Aes Sedai wove a Shield and meant to hold Rand, something about his soul had changed, and they sensed it on a higher level (i.e. the Pattern). They sensed the possibility that despite all notions of reality, in that moment, he was so powerful that they couldn't hold him despite every one of them trying. Despite this, it almost seemed that his fate was in Egwene's hands, and the Pattern hinged on if she would allow him to leave or decided to hold him. Could they have held him if they wanted to? I don't think we can say his "strength", as we've been discussing it, has increased, but it seems very definitive that his channeling is much more powerful than it used to be. I tend to think that what the Ashaman saw was Rand channeling the One Power directly through his eternal soul, and only partially filtered through his body as is usually the case.
I'm not disagreeing with you, entirely: I basically don't think we can quantify what the One Power really is, and when we talk about "strength", it is something more gross and connected to physical limitations or mundane judgments (i.e. the volume, mass, etc. you had mentioned) but if the Pattern needed you to be stronger and/or on some deep level you felt that you needed to put forth all of your strength to accomplish some mission, you could connect to a higher plane of your metaphysical existence to do it. Kind of like a woman whose child is pinned under a car suddenly finding the strength to lift the car and push it away; in that moment, there was a connection between her divine, eternal spirit that exceeded height, weight, volume, etc.
The scene in which Rand visits Egwene in the Hall is interesting when I think of the metaphysical underpinnings of the One Power; in this moment, even if every single Aes Sedai wove a Shield and meant to hold Rand, something about his soul had changed, and they sensed it on a higher level (i.e. the Pattern). They sensed the possibility that despite all notions of reality, in that moment, he was so powerful that they couldn't hold him despite every one of them trying. Despite this, it almost seemed that his fate was in Egwene's hands, and the Pattern hinged on if she would allow him to leave or decided to hold him. Could they have held him if they wanted to? I don't think we can say his "strength", as we've been discussing it, has increased, but it seems very definitive that his channeling is much more powerful than it used to be. I tend to think that what the Ashaman saw was Rand channeling the One Power directly through his eternal soul, and only partially filtered through his body as is usually the case.
I'm not disagreeing with you, entirely: I basically don't think we can quantify what the One Power really is, and when we talk about "strength", it is something more gross and connected to physical limitations or mundane judgments (i.e. the volume, mass, etc. you had mentioned) but if the Pattern needed you to be stronger and/or on some deep level you felt that you needed to put forth all of your strength to accomplish some mission, you could connect to a higher plane of your metaphysical existence to do it. Kind of like a woman whose child is pinned under a car suddenly finding the strength to lift the car and push it away; in that moment, there was a connection between her divine, eternal spirit that exceeded height, weight, volume, etc.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
This message last edited by RugbyPlayingAshaman on 13/12/2011 at 09:42:39 PM
Underestimating Forsaken strength
11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM
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Yes, you are probably correct
12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM
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Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed
12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM
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The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4?
12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM
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I find that unlikely
12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM
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Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR?
13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM
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Well....
13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM
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Well there we have it
13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM
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Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve...
14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM
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That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM*
14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM
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Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM
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Re: Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe...
14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM
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14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM
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The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ...
14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM
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Yes I would agree with that
14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM
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Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane
14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM
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So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM
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Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM
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There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
15/12/2011 07:03:01 AM
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Re: There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
17/12/2011 10:25:47 AM
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Because a difference of a few % is negligible, and not even worth mentioning...
17/12/2011 10:54:49 AM
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Yes
13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM
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Re: Yes
13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM
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Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry,
13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM
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There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex.
13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM
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None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it...
13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM
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But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
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Wait.. I DIDN'T write that!
14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM
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Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:"
17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM
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On gateways
18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM
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Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha.
19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM
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I suspect he knows that...
19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM
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