While reading debates here about which female forsaken is stronger than the other... I always see statements like "Mesaana is among the weaker forsaken."
But think about Mesaana's strength in relative terms. We're comparing her to only a FEW very strong channelers that are stronger than her. The strength difference could even be marginal.
We know that the only very large margin in strength is between Lanfear and the next strongest female Forsaken. People here have forgotten that Lanfear is second to only Ishaemael/Rand in strength. She is out of the other female Forsakens' league.
Semirhage, Graendal, Mesaana, and maybe even Moghedien could all have very small margins of difference in their One Power strengths.
It could be very likely that Semirhage and Graendal are the same in OP strength, or so close as to be negligible (such as Talaan and Nynaeve).
But think about Mesaana's strength in relative terms. We're comparing her to only a FEW very strong channelers that are stronger than her. The strength difference could even be marginal.
We know that the only very large margin in strength is between Lanfear and the next strongest female Forsaken. People here have forgotten that Lanfear is second to only Ishaemael/Rand in strength. She is out of the other female Forsakens' league.
Semirhage, Graendal, Mesaana, and maybe even Moghedien could all have very small margins of difference in their One Power strengths.
It could be very likely that Semirhage and Graendal are the same in OP strength, or so close as to be negligible (such as Talaan and Nynaeve).
Everything we know about the female Forsaken is speculation. In fact, there is only one truly indisputable fact regarding their strength i.e. Cyndane is stronger than Graendal. And from this we can deduce that Lanfear was even stronger than Cyndane. Everything else is hypothetical. We have no idea how the rest of the strength tree looks... It's Lanfear, Cyndane, Graendal... and the position of the other three is unknown.
A lot of the speculation comes from the statement that Alivia is considerably stronger than Nynaeve in WH, implying that there is a large gap between Nynaeve's level and Lanfear's (who is generally considered to be the highest attainable female strength). However, Nynaeve was still not at full strength at this stage. The statement is also made by one of the Kin who has infantile strength compared to both of them. If Alivia has a strength of 90 and Nynaeve 88, and Reanne has a strength of 10, then Nynaeve is almost 20% of her strength weaker than Alivia, thus being 'considerably weaker'. It's also possible Alivia is at 90 and Nynaeve at 75... we just don't know.
We know from RJ that Nynaeve is as strong as most of the female Forsaken, and this is generally taken to mean that she is weaker than Lanfear and Graendal, but as strong as the other three. Moghedien is undoubtedly the weakest, both due to her behaviour, and due to the fact that Nynaeve matched her directly in power early on in the series. Brandon Sanderson also confirmed recently that Mesaana is not a very strong Forsaken in his opinion. Semirhage is most likely to be on Nynaeve's level, or close to it.
The most likely strength tree is Lanfear, Cyndane, Graendal, Semirhage/Nynaeve, Mesaana, Moghedien.
I personally believe that the gaps are small, except perhaps that Moghedien is considerably weaker. I think all of them are 90 to 100% of as strong as possible, maybe even 95 to 100%, which allows them to stand in each other's company without outright murder occuring (which Moghedien does not risk unless commanded to by the Nae'blis). A lot of evidence for the large gaps rests on the fact that high strength males seem to be able to overwhelm higher level female channelers from various quotes, but it has never been demonstrated practically, and even directly contradicted. Most evidence comes from shielding which is very hypothetical and we don't know how the two halves of the Power interact when used on the opposite sex.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Underestimating Forsaken strength
11/12/2011 05:57:22 AM
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Yes, you are probably correct
12/12/2011 06:26:07 AM
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Re: and some of the information given to us is flawed
12/12/2011 07:38:59 PM
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The real question is - What percentage of her full strength did Nynaeve achieve by Book 4?
12/12/2011 08:31:30 PM
- 738 Views
I find that unlikely
12/12/2011 09:28:07 PM
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Easy question for you: Based on the evidence, what percentage of her strength was Nynaeve at in tSR?
13/12/2011 07:09:56 AM
- 684 Views
Well....
13/12/2011 01:12:48 PM
- 742 Views
Well there we have it
13/12/2011 01:36:45 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:06:14 PM
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Re: Well there we have it
13/12/2011 02:12:10 PM
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Alivia may not even be stronger than Nynaeve...
14/12/2011 03:14:06 AM
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That wouldn't surprise me actually *NM*
14/12/2011 07:46:47 AM
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Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 09:13:46 AM
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Re: Where would you place Egwene though?
14/12/2011 12:53:49 PM
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Bonfire next to a candle indeed. Hehehe...
14/12/2011 05:50:34 PM
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14/12/2011 06:56:40 PM
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The same "step" you refer to seperates Egwene from normal Aes Sedai according to RJ...
14/12/2011 07:14:55 PM
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Yes I would agree with that
14/12/2011 08:24:35 PM
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Alivia with an angreal > > > Cyndane
14/12/2011 08:50:41 PM
- 617 Views
So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
14/12/2011 10:01:45 PM
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Re: So many instances of logical laziness in that post...
15/12/2011 06:16:01 AM
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There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
15/12/2011 07:03:01 AM
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Re: There's always room for error, and in general I agree with some of your placements...
17/12/2011 10:25:47 AM
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Because a difference of a few % is negligible, and not even worth mentioning...
17/12/2011 10:54:49 AM
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Yes
13/12/2011 04:16:40 PM
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Re: Yes
13/12/2011 04:47:17 PM
- 733 Views
Nah. Beyond the realm of possibility. Sorry,
13/12/2011 05:12:40 PM
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There are a number of comments from Q&As that shows that this is possible and more complex.
13/12/2011 08:23:49 PM
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None of which I disagree with, but a far cry from women being weaker just due to believing it...
13/12/2011 08:39:40 PM
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But that is my point: it wouldn't be merely force of will.
13/12/2011 09:40:17 PM
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Wait.. I DIDN'T write that!
14/12/2011 03:02:04 AM
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Reply to your question of - "Why use Logain gateway comparison as evidence:"
17/12/2011 03:08:19 PM
- 753 Views
On gateways
18/12/2011 07:17:09 AM
- 728 Views
Might assume that Elayne is stronger in the Power than Aviendha.
19/12/2011 02:40:46 PM
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I suspect he knows that...
19/12/2011 05:53:00 PM
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